4 ms·

Some countries have electronic signatures linked to biometric IDs. Various devices can then be used to verify the signer's natural identity when signing documen

Some countries have electronic signatures linked to biometric IDs. Various devices can then be used to verify the signer's natural identity when signing documents online, like a mobile phone (both smart and dumb). I lived in a country like this and all my electronic signatures were linked to my natural person. Most documents were signed this way - from rental agreements to tax returns. It was very uncanny to start using things like Adobe Sign or DocuSign afterwards which is very popular in the UK and US. For the curious - look up m-signature and e-signature in Lithuania.

Jnr 3y ago
Whole EU and EEZ has standard approved verified electornic signature format. So in EU even cross country signing is possible.
- Roark66 3y ago
  Indeed, it is a pretty cool system, but every time I look into it I'm puzzled by the variety of costs for essentially the same thing. You can buy a cheapest personal certificate that is recognised as equivalent to a physical signature for contract signing for 50eur for 1 year. Or you can spend 500EUR for the same thing. Some come with a smart card, some don't. For some you get software that works offline, for some you can use open source signing software, for others you get nothing and you need to sign the documents via "their website". Some boast "notary approved" which means nothing. For things that require a notary like real estate transactions you still need a notary. My bank even sells "single use" certificates, good for 15 minutes for 5eur. It's a nice convenience, but some of the costs are insane.
  - Jnr 3y ago
    At least in Latvia use of qualified electronic signature is completely free of charge. And you can use government provided service or a 3rd party one backed by banks. It used to cost something for each signature since they have to run the time signature server but they quickly reallised that it made no sense to charge for it.
  - casmike 3y ago
    In Lithuania, the majority of mobile providers offer an end-to-end solution to their customers at €1 per month or less. This includes pay-as-you-go plans and is likely to reflect the actual cost of this tech used on a large scale, given the significant adoption rate (which I estimate to be more than 5% of the Lithuanian population). To provide m-signature services, mobile carriers in Lithuania burn a client biometrics-linked key into the SIM cards they provide. This setup allows the use of phones with these special SIM cards for two-factor authentication, which can be considered three-factor with some caveats due to the inclusion of biometrics. The mobile signature technology has good UX where a user, while signing a document, usually enters their tax ID and phone number into a web form. They then react to a prompt on their phone by inputting one of two memorized PINs. It's easy, cheap, and secure. I also don't believe this technology is subsidized by the government. Though it's challenging to find specific legal language around subsidies for m-signatures, the price of this tech seems to be asymptotically approaching real costs through free market competition. In the Western world, a similar demand for electronic signatures exists. Although the market is currently dominated by costly certificate providers, they seem to lack moat, and it brings hope that this technology may be more widely adopted in places like the UK and US, once prices naturally fall. Lithuania is N=1 but it's an interesting case study for how mobile signatures can be made user-friendly (or at least "user-reasonable") and mass-adopted.
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      As an Lithuanian expat - I absolutely hate this one and all other gov auth methods. They require to keep a contract with either a bank or telco which is an insane third-party dependency. Fortunately they've introduced smartphone app just few weeks ago where you can finally use your national ID. It has to be pretty new one and I'm not sure how long before it expires (IIRC it used to be a mere 2 years until you need to physically renew), but it's a start. It's probably one of the biggest mission of Lithuanian diaspora. p.s. do you have a source that biometrics are "burned-in" into your SIM card? When I set mine up I don't remember anyone scanning it, just visually verifying. p.p.s. above doesn't work with eSIM (not that any Lithuanian ones are useful, i.e. offering free wifi calling when roaming) p.p.p.s. buying anything online in Lithuania is becoming near impossible - barely anyone offers option paying by card, only by a few selected online banks and no you can't just pay IBAN via some no-name digital bank.

Jnr 3y ago

Whole EU and EEZ has standard approved verified electornic signature format. So in EU even cross country signing is possible.

Roark66 3y ago
Indeed, it is a pretty cool system, but every time I look into it I'm puzzled by the variety of costs for essentially the same thing. You can buy a cheapest personal certificate that is recognised as equivalent to a physical signature for contract signing for 50eur for 1 year. Or you can spend 500EUR for the same thing. Some come with a smart card, some don't. For some you get software that works offline, for some you can use open source signing software, for others you get nothing and you need to sign the documents via "their website". Some boast "notary approved" which means nothing. For things that require a notary like real estate transactions you still need a notary. My bank even sells "single use" certificates, good for 15 minutes for 5eur. It's a nice convenience, but some of the costs are insane.
- Jnr 3y ago
  At least in Latvia use of qualified electronic signature is completely free of charge. And you can use government provided service or a 3rd party one backed by banks. It used to cost something for each signature since they have to run the time signature server but they quickly reallised that it made no sense to charge for it.
- casmike 3y ago
  In Lithuania, the majority of mobile providers offer an end-to-end solution to their customers at €1 per month or less. This includes pay-as-you-go plans and is likely to reflect the actual cost of this tech used on a large scale, given the significant adoption rate (which I estimate to be more than 5% of the Lithuanian population). To provide m-signature services, mobile carriers in Lithuania burn a client biometrics-linked key into the SIM cards they provide. This setup allows the use of phones with these special SIM cards for two-factor authentication, which can be considered three-factor with some caveats due to the inclusion of biometrics. The mobile signature technology has good UX where a user, while signing a document, usually enters their tax ID and phone number into a web form. They then react to a prompt on their phone by inputting one of two memorized PINs. It's easy, cheap, and secure. I also don't believe this technology is subsidized by the government. Though it's challenging to find specific legal language around subsidies for m-signatures, the price of this tech seems to be asymptotically approaching real costs through free market competition. In the Western world, a similar demand for electronic signatures exists. Although the market is currently dominated by costly certificate providers, they seem to lack moat, and it brings hope that this technology may be more widely adopted in places like the UK and US, once prices naturally fall. Lithuania is N=1 but it's an interesting case study for how mobile signatures can be made user-friendly (or at least "user-reasonable") and mass-adopted.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    As an Lithuanian expat - I absolutely hate this one and all other gov auth methods. They require to keep a contract with either a bank or telco which is an insane third-party dependency. Fortunately they've introduced smartphone app just few weeks ago where you can finally use your national ID. It has to be pretty new one and I'm not sure how long before it expires (IIRC it used to be a mere 2 years until you need to physically renew), but it's a start. It's probably one of the biggest mission of Lithuanian diaspora. p.s. do you have a source that biometrics are "burned-in" into your SIM card? When I set mine up I don't remember anyone scanning it, just visually verifying. p.p.s. above doesn't work with eSIM (not that any Lithuanian ones are useful, i.e. offering free wifi calling when roaming) p.p.p.s. buying anything online in Lithuania is becoming near impossible - barely anyone offers option paying by card, only by a few selected online banks and no you can't just pay IBAN via some no-name digital bank.