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They do. You just won’t pay for it. When you sign a mortgage or take out a loan and it’s all online, lenders will pay someone to come to your house, take a pho

They do. You just won’t pay for it. When you sign a mortgage or take out a loan and it’s all online, lenders will pay someone to come to your house, take a photo of you, verify it, and then video tape you signing. It’s just not convenient.

jacquesm 3y ago
I won't pay for it because I don't want to use Docusign.
- dmix 3y ago
  Any reason? What about emailed only PDFsS Email is a minor identity validation.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Because it's a broken model that is just one small step away from a complete disaster. Think about the value of inserting yourself in the signing process of a whole slew of official documents. Just the ability to fake it with authentic looking signatures is a real problem. See TFA...
ghaff 3y ago
I had to do a one-off brokerage (where I don't have a personal representative) transfer fairly recently and, although they loosened up a bit during COVID, they were back to basically requiring me to show up at a brokerage branch in person. In theory, I could have gotten a Medallion Signature from my bank but it turned out they couldn't do it at my local branch and getting their central system to do it failed, so I just drove the 40 minutes or so to a brokerage branch. This is the problem with things like account recovery. If you really want to minimize social engineering etc., you'll do something requiring a physical presence and various sorts of government issued ID and will probably cost money. And people won't like that. (And the companies won't like it because there's a lot of overhead.)
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  A passport, or some other difficult-to-forge document, could be used right?
  - ghaff 3y ago
    That's how it works in the US. You show the notary your passport or driver's license, they go "Yup, looks like you," you sign the doc in their presence, and they apply their stamp.
    - noodlesUK 3y ago
      Yeah, but even notary seals are forged with alarming frequency. They are usually just a stamp after all.
      - dzhiurgis 3y ago
        They do keep a record of document signed (not an actual document tho)
      - ghaff 3y ago
        But, at some point, what do you do to absolutely 100% guarantee your bonafides to a complete stranger located across the country? The answer is you probably can't so you put a system in place that protects against all but the most serious and determined attacker who is willing to spend significant effort and money to impersonate you. It's true that you can physically go to the institution in question and prove your bonafides to them so no intermediate is involved but you start to add a lot of friction to all but the most serious transactions.
        noodlesUK 3y ago
        I mean, some kind of PKI would be a nice start. Preferably with a registry at national level.
  - shortcake27 3y ago
mikepurvis 3y ago
I signed my mortgage on DocuSign, over a zoom call.
xvilka 3y ago
In the age of "deep fakes" recording the video of someone signing might not be enough.
thayne 3y ago
The solution is state-backed asymmetric cryptography, ideally with the private key on a hardware token that is protected by a pin. There would need to be a process for replacing a lost or stolen key, but that process could require physical presence.

jacquesm 3y ago

I won't pay for it because I don't want to use Docusign.

dmix 3y ago
Any reason? What about emailed only PDFsS Email is a minor identity validation.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Because it's a broken model that is just one small step away from a complete disaster. Think about the value of inserting yourself in the signing process of a whole slew of official documents. Just the ability to fake it with authentic looking signatures is a real problem. See TFA...

ghaff 3y ago

I had to do a one-off brokerage (where I don't have a personal representative) transfer fairly recently and, although they loosened up a bit during COVID, they were back to basically requiring me to show up at a brokerage branch in person. In theory, I could have gotten a Medallion Signature from my bank but it turned out they couldn't do it at my local branch and getting their central system to do it failed, so I just drove the 40 minutes or so to a brokerage branch. This is the problem with things like account recovery. If you really want to minimize social engineering etc., you'll do something requiring a physical presence and various sorts of government issued ID and will probably cost money. And people won't like that. (And the companies won't like it because there's a lot of overhead.)

MichaelZuo 3y ago
A passport, or some other difficult-to-forge document, could be used right?
- ghaff 3y ago
  That's how it works in the US. You show the notary your passport or driver's license, they go "Yup, looks like you," you sign the doc in their presence, and they apply their stamp.
  - noodlesUK 3y ago
    Yeah, but even notary seals are forged with alarming frequency. They are usually just a stamp after all.
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      They do keep a record of document signed (not an actual document tho)
    - ghaff 3y ago
      But, at some point, what do you do to absolutely 100% guarantee your bonafides to a complete stranger located across the country? The answer is you probably can't so you put a system in place that protects against all but the most serious and determined attacker who is willing to spend significant effort and money to impersonate you. It's true that you can physically go to the institution in question and prove your bonafides to them so no intermediate is involved but you start to add a lot of friction to all but the most serious transactions.
      - noodlesUK 3y ago
        I mean, some kind of PKI would be a nice start. Preferably with a registry at national level.
- shortcake27 3y ago

mikepurvis 3y ago

I signed my mortgage on DocuSign, over a zoom call.

xvilka 3y ago

In the age of "deep fakes" recording the video of someone signing might not be enough.

thayne 3y ago

The solution is state-backed asymmetric cryptography, ideally with the private key on a hardware token that is protected by a pin. There would need to be a process for replacing a lost or stolen key, but that process could require physical presence.