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How many people are regularly driving more than 300 miles without stopping for 30-45 minutes anyway? I guess this does step around the need for more charging in

by kbos87 3y ago

How many people are regularly driving more than 300 miles without stopping for 30-45 minutes anyway? I guess this does step around the need for more charging infrastructure, but it seems like most range anxiety is pretty misinformed at this point.

dsr_ 3y ago
What I think people feel about range anxiety is a combination of several internalizations: - battery-powered toys run out of power at inconvenient times; that's our benchmark - gasoline fuel stations are everywhere, and we know it takes 5-10 minutes for everything to be completed - we can't afford to have a second vehicle just for long-range trips, so our annual longest trip is what we think about. Adding 30 minutes to every 10 minute stop might or might not be a problem - we've all had the experience of waking up a little late, needing to get somewhere immediately, and then realizing that we need to fuel the car -- and that makes us 5 minutes late. If the equivalent makes us 35 minutes late, that's not acceptable - in five years, is this car going to be undrivable because the batteries only hold half as much charge? Is it going to be worth much less because it needs a new $10K battery pack? But the number one reason why people aren't buying electric cars is the same reason they aren't buying new cars: too damn expensive. US passenger car sales peaked in 1986. In 2018 they were lower than any year since 1951, and they have sunk even lower in every year since. 1951 car sales: 5.3 million 1986 car sales: 11.4 million 2018 car sales: 5.3 million 2022 car sales: 2.86 million
- pornel 3y ago
  Your list of fears is very true, but not all of them are an actual problem in practice. BEVs report remaining battery very reliably, and keep going even at 1% (way better than all your gadgets). But you're very unlikely to even get a close call, because you plan charging stops before you leave (good EVs plan them automatically). DC rapid chargers can add 50 miles of range in 5 minutes (nearly empty batteries charge fastest). 5min emergency on a 1h drive doesn't seem too bad. Traffic adds more uncertainty.
  - kbos87 3y ago
    This is in line with my experience. Very clear how much range you have to work with, very obvious advice and prompts if you approach a low battery. -Low-ish battery and cold temps are on the way? You are prompted to charge the night before. - Planning to go somewhere, you don’t have sufficient range, and no chargers available on the way? Flashing red alert. - Planned charging stop and there’s a power outage at that location? Automatically rerouted to the next best stop. - Actually driving and don’t have enough range to get there? You are prompted to pick a charging stop or drive under 60mph. Way ahead of a gas vehicle in preventing accidentally running out of power/gas.
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  Also if you run out of petrol or diesel far from a station, you can get road services or someone else (yourself?) to haul a couple gallons over and get going. You can even just pump some out of a passing car if you have a long enough hose and lungs. Now I've never owned an EV and I suspect there is a way to use one car as a charger for another, in which case the latter becomes less of a point the more EVs are on the road. OTOH I imagine it would still take quite a while longer to get enough charge to drive to the nearest charging point than it does to transfer a little liquid fuel though.
  - belltaco 3y ago
    Mobile charging services are already a thing https://insideevs.com/news/449438/sparkcharge-shark-tank-deal/ https://insideevs.com/news/449438/sparkcharge-shark-tank-dea...
- ComputerGuru 3y ago
  Your final statistic is the most damning, especially given there are (officially) 43% more people living in the USA today than in 1986. Also, I don’t think the point of comparison is battery-powered toys. People have experience with electric tools (I can’t even vacuum my living room properly and with good conscience with the meager battery life the top-of-line battery vacuums offer!) which is probably a fairer comparison.
- stirbot 3y ago
  Do you have a source for those numbers? They don't agree with the Fed's statistics: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ALTSALES https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ALTSALES
  - dsr_ 3y ago
    here's what I used: https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-since-1951/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-sinc...

by kbos87 3y ago

dsr_ 3y ago

What I think people feel about range anxiety is a combination of several internalizations: - battery-powered toys run out of power at inconvenient times; that's our benchmark - gasoline fuel stations are everywhere, and we know it takes 5-10 minutes for everything to be completed - we can't afford to have a second vehicle just for long-range trips, so our annual longest trip is what we think about. Adding 30 minutes to every 10 minute stop might or might not be a problem - we've all had the experience of waking up a little late, needing to get somewhere immediately, and then realizing that we need to fuel the car -- and that makes us 5 minutes late. If the equivalent makes us 35 minutes late, that's not acceptable - in five years, is this car going to be undrivable because the batteries only hold half as much charge? Is it going to be worth much less because it needs a new $10K battery pack? But the number one reason why people aren't buying electric cars is the same reason they aren't buying new cars: too damn expensive. US passenger car sales peaked in 1986. In 2018 they were lower than any year since 1951, and they have sunk even lower in every year since. 1951 car sales: 5.3 million 1986 car sales: 11.4 million 2018 car sales: 5.3 million 2022 car sales: 2.86 million

pornel 3y ago
Your list of fears is very true, but not all of them are an actual problem in practice. BEVs report remaining battery very reliably, and keep going even at 1% (way better than all your gadgets). But you're very unlikely to even get a close call, because you plan charging stops before you leave (good EVs plan them automatically). DC rapid chargers can add 50 miles of range in 5 minutes (nearly empty batteries charge fastest). 5min emergency on a 1h drive doesn't seem too bad. Traffic adds more uncertainty.
- kbos87 3y ago
  This is in line with my experience. Very clear how much range you have to work with, very obvious advice and prompts if you approach a low battery. -Low-ish battery and cold temps are on the way? You are prompted to charge the night before. - Planning to go somewhere, you don’t have sufficient range, and no chargers available on the way? Flashing red alert. - Planned charging stop and there’s a power outage at that location? Automatically rerouted to the next best stop. - Actually driving and don’t have enough range to get there? You are prompted to pick a charging stop or drive under 60mph. Way ahead of a gas vehicle in preventing accidentally running out of power/gas.
cassianoleal 3y ago
Also if you run out of petrol or diesel far from a station, you can get road services or someone else (yourself?) to haul a couple gallons over and get going. You can even just pump some out of a passing car if you have a long enough hose and lungs. Now I've never owned an EV and I suspect there is a way to use one car as a charger for another, in which case the latter becomes less of a point the more EVs are on the road. OTOH I imagine it would still take quite a while longer to get enough charge to drive to the nearest charging point than it does to transfer a little liquid fuel though.
- belltaco 3y ago
  Mobile charging services are already a thing https://insideevs.com/news/449438/sparkcharge-shark-tank-deal/ https://insideevs.com/news/449438/sparkcharge-shark-tank-dea...
ComputerGuru 3y ago
Your final statistic is the most damning, especially given there are (officially) 43% more people living in the USA today than in 1986. Also, I don’t think the point of comparison is battery-powered toys. People have experience with electric tools (I can’t even vacuum my living room properly and with good conscience with the meager battery life the top-of-line battery vacuums offer!) which is probably a fairer comparison.
stirbot 3y ago
Do you have a source for those numbers? They don't agree with the Fed's statistics: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ALTSALES https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ALTSALES
- dsr_ 3y ago
  here's what I used: https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-since-1951/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-sinc...