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I've been seeing a lot of articles like this. I feel like Toyota is planting these stories to encourage its customers to wait for its EVs. After all, why would

I've been seeing a lot of articles like this. I feel like Toyota is planting these stories to encourage its customers to wait for its EVs. After all, why would anyone want a 300 mile EV when these hypothetical vaporware "745 mile" EVs are around the corner?

pramsey 3y ago
This is the most true-to-myself comment I've seen so far. I've only ever bought Toyota cars, but my next car will be an EV and Toyota's offerings are... subpar, and barely there. I trust Toyota build quality and manufacturing, but my current vehicle is probably going to need replacing before they have a proven, large volume native EV on the market. They waited too long.
simondotau 3y ago
I'm starting to wonder if the "745 mile" claim is actually admission of technical failure. Think about it. If their battery really does have that capacity and can "charge in 10 minutes" then why not a battery half or even a quarter the capacity? Perhaps this battery's maximum rate of discharge is so low that such a massively oversized pack is needed to get sufficient momentary power to the electric motors?
- UncleOxidant 3y ago
  I've been wondering the same. I'd be fine with a 350 mile range vehicle - it would cover more than 99.9% of all of my trips. It would be cheaper since presumably it would only need less than 1/2 of the batteries required to go 745 miles and also it would make the vehicle lighter. Not a lot of people actually need a vehicle capable of going 745 miles on a charge - most gas cars only go 400 to 500 miles on a tank of gas currently.
- XorNot 3y ago
  Yep, this is an excellent point: if you could get that sort of range, then most of the market would happily buy about a 1/4 of that provided the price was similarly much lower.
- justapassenger 3y ago
  You’re overthinking it. Range is main thing people worry about, especially ones with no EV experience (which is majority of the world). Big range is how to you get headlines.
  - realusername 3y ago
    Yes, people have a very warped idea on how far they are actually traveling and focus on range at all costs.
    - xeromal 3y ago
      If you've actually driven an EV, you realize mileage is a crock of shit so getting 700 miles actually means you can not worry. * You can't use the bottom 10% without going against recommendations * You shouldn't charge above 85-90% to avoid going against recommendations * If you drive over 65 mph, the drain is above average. * If you tow a trailer, your range is halved. * If you install a little storage roof rack, you lose 20-30% of range * You experience 10% battery degradation in the first couple years of ownership. * 20% loss to cold weather (Thanks to a comment for this one) I really don't want a reply to this comment to be "Well...gas engines..."
      - mcswell 3y ago
        Most of those problems are exactly the same with ICE engines. You may not want that comment, but it's true. Except the roof rack one is bogus. I installed the cross bars of a roof rack on my Bolt EUV (it came with the rails), and afaict it affected my mileage not at all. I still get 320 to 330 estimated miles (against the EPA's 247 estimated miles). And the don't charge above 85--90% one is bogus too; there's talk about that on forums, but the manufacturer says nothing about it. And I wouldn't want to go below 10% on a gas powered car either...
        xeromal 3y ago
        I'm open to you explaining how those ice issues are the same instead of just saying they are. Running your car to zero fuel may potentially damage your fuel pump while running your Tesla or electric car to 0% constantly will completely destroy the battery. Much more expensive issue. Someone can easily bring you a small Jerry can of gas if you run out while it's day near impossible to do the same thing for an electric car. It'll need to be towed.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  > Perhaps this battery's maximum rate of discharge is so low If someone invented a battery great in all dimensions except a low discharge rate, it would just be paired with a regular lithium battery to provide brief bursts of power for acceleration. In fact, thats the way most fuel cell vehicles work (fuel cells are expensive, so you use one as small as possible and use it at full power all the time, storing any excess in a regular battery)

pramsey 3y ago

This is the most true-to-myself comment I've seen so far. I've only ever bought Toyota cars, but my next car will be an EV and Toyota's offerings are... subpar, and barely there. I trust Toyota build quality and manufacturing, but my current vehicle is probably going to need replacing before they have a proven, large volume native EV on the market. They waited too long.

simondotau 3y ago

I'm starting to wonder if the "745 mile" claim is actually admission of technical failure. Think about it. If their battery really does have that capacity and can "charge in 10 minutes" then why not a battery half or even a quarter the capacity? Perhaps this battery's maximum rate of discharge is so low that such a massively oversized pack is needed to get sufficient momentary power to the electric motors?

UncleOxidant 3y ago
I've been wondering the same. I'd be fine with a 350 mile range vehicle - it would cover more than 99.9% of all of my trips. It would be cheaper since presumably it would only need less than 1/2 of the batteries required to go 745 miles and also it would make the vehicle lighter. Not a lot of people actually need a vehicle capable of going 745 miles on a charge - most gas cars only go 400 to 500 miles on a tank of gas currently.
XorNot 3y ago
Yep, this is an excellent point: if you could get that sort of range, then most of the market would happily buy about a 1/4 of that provided the price was similarly much lower.
justapassenger 3y ago
You’re overthinking it. Range is main thing people worry about, especially ones with no EV experience (which is majority of the world). Big range is how to you get headlines.
- realusername 3y ago
  Yes, people have a very warped idea on how far they are actually traveling and focus on range at all costs.
  - xeromal 3y ago
    If you've actually driven an EV, you realize mileage is a crock of shit so getting 700 miles actually means you can not worry. * You can't use the bottom 10% without going against recommendations * You shouldn't charge above 85-90% to avoid going against recommendations * If you drive over 65 mph, the drain is above average. * If you tow a trailer, your range is halved. * If you install a little storage roof rack, you lose 20-30% of range * You experience 10% battery degradation in the first couple years of ownership. * 20% loss to cold weather (Thanks to a comment for this one) I really don't want a reply to this comment to be "Well...gas engines..."
    - mcswell 3y ago
      Most of those problems are exactly the same with ICE engines. You may not want that comment, but it's true. Except the roof rack one is bogus. I installed the cross bars of a roof rack on my Bolt EUV (it came with the rails), and afaict it affected my mileage not at all. I still get 320 to 330 estimated miles (against the EPA's 247 estimated miles). And the don't charge above 85--90% one is bogus too; there's talk about that on forums, but the manufacturer says nothing about it. And I wouldn't want to go below 10% on a gas powered car either...
      - xeromal 3y ago
        I'm open to you explaining how those ice issues are the same instead of just saying they are. Running your car to zero fuel may potentially damage your fuel pump while running your Tesla or electric car to 0% constantly will completely destroy the battery. Much more expensive issue. Someone can easily bring you a small Jerry can of gas if you run out while it's day near impossible to do the same thing for an electric car. It'll need to be towed.
londons_explore 3y ago
> Perhaps this battery's maximum rate of discharge is so low If someone invented a battery great in all dimensions except a low discharge rate, it would just be paired with a regular lithium battery to provide brief bursts of power for acceleration. In fact, thats the way most fuel cell vehicles work (fuel cells are expensive, so you use one as small as possible and use it at full power all the time, storing any excess in a regular battery)