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I don't believe there is a strong difference between engineering and management when it comes to an operation like this. I'd say there is a dependency on the tw

I don't believe there is a strong difference between engineering and management when it comes to an operation like this. I'd say there is a dependency on the two? If America doesn't have the management capabilities, experience and maturity to get a plant going, it doesn't matter about the tech or the engineers, it's not going to workout. This includes having managers of a certain caliber which a large firm would trust with hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on getting factories running. I completely understand what you mean by the way and sympathize with your view. I've spent considerable amount of time in Japan and other parts of Asia for business, they have plenty of people with plant management experience who would be able to organize an operation like this. Japan, for example, has off shored a lot, but not everything. Not by a long shot.

bluGill 3y ago
There are many companies in America that are doing this though, and they are successful. Thus it isn't America that can't, but corporate culture at Stanley. This fits my experience at a number of companies, some are much better managed than others.
thumbuddy 3y ago
The funniest part about Japanese industry is... It was revitalized by an American post WWII by a dude named Deming, who was pretty much hated/ignored by American industry. So he went overthere and made them a powerhouse. Years later American companies were scratching their heads doing anything to hire the guy but not foster the skillset he asked for in his education programs or actually listen beyond being able to market that they took the advice for a few months. America has triple downed on ignoring experts to maintain order, pay people less, and saving money short term. When an American company hires 10,000 people it's to bolster numbers or slow competition. When an Japanese company does it's because they need workers long term. When an American company lays off 10,000 people it's because their profitability has changed or the dream wasn't realized. Meanwhile a German company doesn't lay off it's people because it plans to succeed long term and it knows it can't replace it's people, and long term it's more expensive to retrain them. US employment laws are partially to blame, but most of American industry is a pump and dump...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I think Deming deserves a lot of credit, but don't forget to credit the Japanese as well: to be the recipient of information and that listen to it and act on it is the harder part. Deming didn't single-handedly transform Japanese industry, he gave them a set of principles and ways of working and they absolutely ran with it. Without the second part nobody would have heard about Deming.
  - vram22 3y ago
    Makes sense. This is him: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming There is a an international TQM award named after him: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deming_Prize https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deming_Prize Many Japanese people have won the individual award. Some people and organisations from other countries have won the individual and application awards, too, including from the USA and India.
  - thumbuddy 3y ago
    Oh for sure. I didn't mean to under cut the efforts of the Japanese people! Infact I meant to raise them up, the US has had every opportunity to do the same and most places have done everything they can to ignore reality in favor of off the cuff thinking by people who have never seen ground truth.
jacquesm 3y ago
> I don't believe there is a strong difference between engineering and management when it comes to an operation like this. There can be massive gulfs between the shop floor, engineering and management. In good companies those are bridgeable, in bad companies they are islands that exchange email. If engineers and management can't be regularly found on the floor and if they don't know the names of at least the foremen then that's a good indication that a company is run in a way that is not compatible with top quality. I've worked with an architect in NL that made a ton of metal structures and he was also the best shop guy they had when they were still small. He came up with the basic ways to build the structures, built all the prototypes and then stepped back and let the real experts take over to scale it up. He knew his limits, as well as their strengths and the end result was a company that really went places. They use a combination of forgings and steel stock cut to length and the work they do is very complex. I don't think they would have been in business for long without managing this relationship between management, engineering and shop as well as they did. I've seen one other company like that, more recently and they too did this to the best of their abilities. The pride at the quality of their work radiated out from everybody that worked there. It also makes me happy to work with such companies because the alternatives are nearly always painful to watch.

bluGill 3y ago

There are many companies in America that are doing this though, and they are successful. Thus it isn't America that can't, but corporate culture at Stanley. This fits my experience at a number of companies, some are much better managed than others.

thumbuddy 3y ago

The funniest part about Japanese industry is... It was revitalized by an American post WWII by a dude named Deming, who was pretty much hated/ignored by American industry. So he went overthere and made them a powerhouse. Years later American companies were scratching their heads doing anything to hire the guy but not foster the skillset he asked for in his education programs or actually listen beyond being able to market that they took the advice for a few months. America has triple downed on ignoring experts to maintain order, pay people less, and saving money short term. When an American company hires 10,000 people it's to bolster numbers or slow competition. When an Japanese company does it's because they need workers long term. When an American company lays off 10,000 people it's because their profitability has changed or the dream wasn't realized. Meanwhile a German company doesn't lay off it's people because it plans to succeed long term and it knows it can't replace it's people, and long term it's more expensive to retrain them. US employment laws are partially to blame, but most of American industry is a pump and dump...

jacquesm 3y ago
I think Deming deserves a lot of credit, but don't forget to credit the Japanese as well: to be the recipient of information and that listen to it and act on it is the harder part. Deming didn't single-handedly transform Japanese industry, he gave them a set of principles and ways of working and they absolutely ran with it. Without the second part nobody would have heard about Deming.
- vram22 3y ago
  Makes sense. This is him: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming There is a an international TQM award named after him: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deming_Prize https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deming_Prize Many Japanese people have won the individual award. Some people and organisations from other countries have won the individual and application awards, too, including from the USA and India.
- thumbuddy 3y ago
  Oh for sure. I didn't mean to under cut the efforts of the Japanese people! Infact I meant to raise them up, the US has had every opportunity to do the same and most places have done everything they can to ignore reality in favor of off the cuff thinking by people who have never seen ground truth.

jacquesm 3y ago

> I don't believe there is a strong difference between engineering and management when it comes to an operation like this. There can be massive gulfs between the shop floor, engineering and management. In good companies those are bridgeable, in bad companies they are islands that exchange email. If engineers and management can't be regularly found on the floor and if they don't know the names of at least the foremen then that's a good indication that a company is run in a way that is not compatible with top quality. I've worked with an architect in NL that made a ton of metal structures and he was also the best shop guy they had when they were still small. He came up with the basic ways to build the structures, built all the prototypes and then stepped back and let the real experts take over to scale it up. He knew his limits, as well as their strengths and the end result was a company that really went places. They use a combination of forgings and steel stock cut to length and the work they do is very complex. I don't think they would have been in business for long without managing this relationship between management, engineering and shop as well as they did. I've seen one other company like that, more recently and they too did this to the best of their abilities. The pride at the quality of their work radiated out from everybody that worked there. It also makes me happy to work with such companies because the alternatives are nearly always painful to watch.