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I started watching this documentary. First 5 minutes is mind-blowing, stating that they found deliberate burials in these inaccessible caves. Thereafter, it's

I started watching this documentary. First 5 minutes is mind-blowing, stating that they found deliberate burials in these inaccessible caves. Thereafter, it's just speculation. "We can imagine h. naledi has fire since other early humans did". They start a small fire in the cave to show what it may have looked like. Plenty of animations of what the scientists imagine may have happened there. Speculation how most societies have some kind of religious or spiritual leader so h. naledi, perhaps, definitely had one too. The dark spots which were definitely maybe fire were also there. Even for popular science it felt very flakey.

throwawaycities 3y ago
The documentary felt a bit staged & had that modern anti-mainstream academia vibe (i.e. our findings are so revolutionary they rewrite history and so we wish they weren’t so revolutionary because we will not be taken serious and will become the enemy of mainstream science). That said, unless the site is somehow staged or wildly misinterpreted, I think there is more evidence of potential use of fire than: "We can imagine h. naledi has fire since other early humans did". Even without finding evidence of fire in the cave, assuming the body was intentionally placed (big assumption) light would have been required to access that part of the cave. The only alternatives I can think of are the species had more sensitive optics than modern human enabling them to see in a dark cave, or much more likely the body wasn’t placed there as part of a burial ritual but died down there. Part of the problem is, if the evidence pointed to the later, they give off the vibe they would have created another spectacular narrative like this was evidence of an early legal system where someone was tried of a crime and sentenced to confinement in the cave, the “tool” and scratches in the cave wall being the first evidence of an attempted jail escape, demonstrating early hominids desire to be “free” just like modern humans.
- rozab 3y ago
  Light could have been provided by phosphorescent organisms in the caves
louky 3y ago
determining if "dark spots" are actually a hearth is a known process, nobody ran the chemical composition before publishing? dark spots indeed.

throwawaycities 3y ago

The documentary felt a bit staged & had that modern anti-mainstream academia vibe (i.e. our findings are so revolutionary they rewrite history and so we wish they weren’t so revolutionary because we will not be taken serious and will become the enemy of mainstream science). That said, unless the site is somehow staged or wildly misinterpreted, I think there is more evidence of potential use of fire than: "We can imagine h. naledi has fire since other early humans did". Even without finding evidence of fire in the cave, assuming the body was intentionally placed (big assumption) light would have been required to access that part of the cave. The only alternatives I can think of are the species had more sensitive optics than modern human enabling them to see in a dark cave, or much more likely the body wasn’t placed there as part of a burial ritual but died down there. Part of the problem is, if the evidence pointed to the later, they give off the vibe they would have created another spectacular narrative like this was evidence of an early legal system where someone was tried of a crime and sentenced to confinement in the cave, the “tool” and scratches in the cave wall being the first evidence of an attempted jail escape, demonstrating early hominids desire to be “free” just like modern humans.

rozab 3y ago
Light could have been provided by phosphorescent organisms in the caves

louky 3y ago

determining if "dark spots" are actually a hearth is a known process, nobody ran the chemical composition before publishing? dark spots indeed.