5 ms·

Wait, I thought the knowledge had been permanently destroyed? Forever lost, with no hope of ever figuring out whatever it was? Simply rediscovering what was pre

by tom_ 3y ago

Wait, I thought the knowledge had been permanently destroyed? Forever lost, with no hope of ever figuring out whatever it was? Simply rediscovering what was previously known seems reasonably achievable!

pessimizer 3y ago
You can't teach 20 years of experience in a year. The people we once had with 20 years of experience found other work.
- breezeTrowel 3y ago
  Why not?
  - steve1977 3y ago
    I guess the problem is more that experience is often implicit knowledge and intuition that is hard to teach to others (or even put into words)
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    You can teach 20 years of experience but it takes 20 years.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    Why can't you teach a language to a native proficiency in a year? There's quite a lot to know, and the speed of learning is limited. Answers to advanced questions which you are ready to provide must be met by the actual questions from the student, which must first form in their head as a result of processing the previous servings of knowledge.
    - breezeTrowel 3y ago
      The corpus of a language is a lot larger and more complex than 20 years of experience in manufacturing especially when a lot of the techniques become dated as new ways of doing things are discovered. Also, we teach thousands of years of experience in mathematics within the scope of 10-20 years. The problem isn't that you can't teach 20 years of experience in a year - you can. The problem is that this knowledge isn't stored anywhere that's easily accessible and that makes propagation next to impossible.
- peteradio 3y ago
  You aren't gaining experience every second of those 20 years. There is definitely a large condensation factor to be had here and knowledge can be transferred in written word. What are we saying here? The only method of communication has to be done via hip thrusts and eye brow waggles?
agentgumshoe 3y ago
Aside the hyperbole, yeah, it's now decades of 're-learning' ahead again, that's permanently destroyed for a generation or two (considering the existing decades of loss) who it won't be there for.
specialist 3y ago
In some cases, that's true. There's stuff like weapons where the knowhow is truly gone. So the DoD has to reverse engineer the remaining artifacts and attempt to recreate the entire stack.
leptons 3y ago
Sure the skills can be taught to people, but who wants to do it for slave wages? If the CEO's salary were cut in half, and the other half distributed among the employees, people would be clamoring to learn these skills. The CEO would still be doing extremely well and workers would be getting paid a real living wage. But nobody wants to do most of the jobs it takes to bring manufacturing back if the pay isn't there.
- twoodfin 3y ago
  I think you have a mistaken impression of the scale of CEO pay for large corporations vs. total payroll. Tim Cook is one of the highest compensated CEOs in the world. In his best years he’s paid something like $100M all-in. Apple has around 165,000 employees. Dividing up half his salary amongst them would be about $300 each.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    People are really, REALLY bad with large numbers.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    You're not wrong on that specific point, but it still misses the forest for the trees.
  - leptons 3y ago
    That's called cherry picking. Most of Apple's employees aren't slaving away in factories, and they already get paid well. Apple also outsources the really shitty manufacturing work to people making slave wages in other countries where they don't even have a choice not to work. If you can cherry pick, then I can too. Rivian's CEO made $422,140,679 in 2021, and they have 14,122 employees, so half that salary divided by number of employees comes out to $14,946 per employee. Not a bad bump in pay especially if you're in a factory putting together car parts. The CEO of "Lucid Group, Inc." made $565,591,512 in 2021 and they had 7,200 employees, so the figure there is $39,277 per employee. Trust me, Peter Rawlinson will do just fine making only $282,795,756 per year. The CEO of "Bright Health Group, Inc." makes $180,813,849 per year and they employ 1500 people - split in half and distributed to the employees they would get a pay bump of $60,271 per year. So yeah. You can cherry-pick all you want, but the fact is that CEO pay is too damned high, and it's no wonder people don't want to go slave away in factories making a few dollars while the CEOs can afford 3 mega yachts and 12 vacation homes.

by tom_ 3y ago

pessimizer 3y ago

You can't teach 20 years of experience in a year. The people we once had with 20 years of experience found other work.

breezeTrowel 3y ago
Why not?
- steve1977 3y ago
  I guess the problem is more that experience is often implicit knowledge and intuition that is hard to teach to others (or even put into words)
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  You can teach 20 years of experience but it takes 20 years.
- nine_k 3y ago
  Why can't you teach a language to a native proficiency in a year? There's quite a lot to know, and the speed of learning is limited. Answers to advanced questions which you are ready to provide must be met by the actual questions from the student, which must first form in their head as a result of processing the previous servings of knowledge.
  - breezeTrowel 3y ago
    The corpus of a language is a lot larger and more complex than 20 years of experience in manufacturing especially when a lot of the techniques become dated as new ways of doing things are discovered. Also, we teach thousands of years of experience in mathematics within the scope of 10-20 years. The problem isn't that you can't teach 20 years of experience in a year - you can. The problem is that this knowledge isn't stored anywhere that's easily accessible and that makes propagation next to impossible.
peteradio 3y ago
You aren't gaining experience every second of those 20 years. There is definitely a large condensation factor to be had here and knowledge can be transferred in written word. What are we saying here? The only method of communication has to be done via hip thrusts and eye brow waggles?

agentgumshoe 3y ago

Aside the hyperbole, yeah, it's now decades of 're-learning' ahead again, that's permanently destroyed for a generation or two (considering the existing decades of loss) who it won't be there for.

specialist 3y ago

In some cases, that's true. There's stuff like weapons where the knowhow is truly gone. So the DoD has to reverse engineer the remaining artifacts and attempt to recreate the entire stack.

leptons 3y ago

Sure the skills can be taught to people, but who wants to do it for slave wages? If the CEO's salary were cut in half, and the other half distributed among the employees, people would be clamoring to learn these skills. The CEO would still be doing extremely well and workers would be getting paid a real living wage. But nobody wants to do most of the jobs it takes to bring manufacturing back if the pay isn't there.

twoodfin 3y ago
I think you have a mistaken impression of the scale of CEO pay for large corporations vs. total payroll. Tim Cook is one of the highest compensated CEOs in the world. In his best years he’s paid something like $100M all-in. Apple has around 165,000 employees. Dividing up half his salary amongst them would be about $300 each.
- bombcar 3y ago
  People are really, REALLY bad with large numbers.
- flangola7 3y ago
  You're not wrong on that specific point, but it still misses the forest for the trees.
- leptons 3y ago
  That's called cherry picking. Most of Apple's employees aren't slaving away in factories, and they already get paid well. Apple also outsources the really shitty manufacturing work to people making slave wages in other countries where they don't even have a choice not to work. If you can cherry pick, then I can too. Rivian's CEO made $422,140,679 in 2021, and they have 14,122 employees, so half that salary divided by number of employees comes out to $14,946 per employee. Not a bad bump in pay especially if you're in a factory putting together car parts. The CEO of "Lucid Group, Inc." made $565,591,512 in 2021 and they had 7,200 employees, so the figure there is $39,277 per employee. Trust me, Peter Rawlinson will do just fine making only $282,795,756 per year. The CEO of "Bright Health Group, Inc." makes $180,813,849 per year and they employ 1500 people - split in half and distributed to the employees they would get a pay bump of $60,271 per year. So yeah. You can cherry-pick all you want, but the fact is that CEO pay is too damned high, and it's no wonder people don't want to go slave away in factories making a few dollars while the CEOs can afford 3 mega yachts and 12 vacation homes.