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As the article says, premium wrenches are already made in America. Consumers pay for comparatively-expensive American labour in comparatively-expensive premium

by gnat 3y ago

As the article says, premium wrenches are already made in America. Consumers pay for comparatively-expensive American labour in comparatively-expensive premium products. The article is about an attempt to onshore the wrenches for a low-price tools brand. Those wrenches are currently made in a labour-intensive process by low-cost Chinese labour. If they use USA labour they'll have to charge premium tool prices and consumers won't go for it. So they tried to automate. Yes, reducing the need for American labour, but not because they wanted to charge premium prices for the result. Interestingly, even the machines required to bring manufacturing back to America aren't made in America.

PaulHoule 3y ago
The automation heavy factory that they couldn’t get to work is an old story.
stefan_ 3y ago
That's not interesting, it is the utterly predictable result of not making anything. Of course the only ones getting better at it and making machines for it are those doing the manufacturing.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  That’s not true in chip making for example
  - rasz 3y ago
    True in chip _making_, not yet true in chip design.
    - dilyevsky 3y ago
      Although not american, ASML is not chinese / taiwanese either where most of chips are made.
      - rasz 3y ago
        ASML doesnt make chips.
        dilyevsky 3y ago
        I’m aware. I think you should reread original comment I was replying to
MuffinFlavored 3y ago
> by low-cost Chinese labour. Why are Chinese willing to do labor for low-cost while Americans are "unwilling/uninterested" in such labor?
- whatshisface 3y ago
  Because the country has lower standards of living and a government that busts independent unions while deliberately manipulating their currency to make sure workers do not end up with too much buying power.
- the_only_law 3y ago
  Probably because the American couldn’t even pay for housing on wage the Chinese worker can.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  Different places have different costs of living.
  - ahoka 3y ago
    Unfortunately, higher cost of living doesn’t automatically raise wages though.
    - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
      While true in the abstract, that's not germane here.
- harywilke 3y ago
  Cost of living is somewhere between 40% to 70% less in China.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    That is a bit circular. The economy isn't like weather where some places just have less rain. China's cost of living is 40-70% lower because the people doing the work are willing to charge less.
happytiger 3y ago
The only problem with the argument is that it’s completely false (not you, the company). > These days, China's labor costs are only 4% cheaper than those in the U.S. when productivity is factored in, according to Oxford Economics. https://money.cnn.com/2016/03/17/news/economy/china-cheap-labor-productivity/#:~:text=These%20days%2C%20China's%20labor%20costs,in%2C%20according%20to%20Oxford%20Economics https://money.cnn.com/2016/03/17/news/economy/china-cheap-la.... So once you realize the company is using the excuse (lying?) about the labor excuse, then you have to wonder what the real reason is. Especially after their disaster of a 2022 (which was directly the result of supply chain problems in... Drum roll please... China). Good opinion piece: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4547012-stanley-black-and-decker-im-turning-away-from-this-turnaround-story https://seekingalpha.com/article/4547012-stanley-black-and-d... More information: https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/global_labor_rates_china_is_no_longer_a_low_cost_country https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/global_labor_rates_chi...
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  “Productivity” is a very hand wavey idea.
- 542458 3y ago
  I’m not really sure how that’s possible - when I’ve gotten quotes for short run highly automated manufacturing (the stuff the US should be comparatively good at!), the overseas numbers are usually about half those of the US on a per part basis. IIRC can try this for yourself on Xometry by changing the manufacturing location. But there’s also more than just labor cost. In my experience: when we ask a Chinese manufacturer about something they don’t have the capability to do, they’ll come back with subcontracting options from the factory down the road who can do it. There’s so much manufacturing capability concentrated in a small number of places that every process option is on the table. But in North America, it’s a very different story. Everything is so spread out so your options are dramatically more limited unless you want to be shipping parts across the country. I’m not saying NA-based manufacturing is bad: the org I work for still does most stuff here for agility, communication, and security reasons. But it’s not cheap. Opinions are my own.
  - 3y ago
jackhack 3y ago
"a low-price tools brand" Excuse me, but what? The Craftsman brand historically was a consumer premium brand, priced midway between tradesmen premium brands like Snap-On and consumer "hardware store cheap tools" -- Craftsman was never a low-price brand. Craftsman used to stand for quality, with a lifetime no-questions-asked guarantee wherein, if the tool fails for any reason, it will be replaced. Period. No questions asked, no receipt required. Quality. And men proudly used their father's or grandfather's tools. I remember well when Craftsman moved hand tool manufacturing from USA to China. Clearly cost of production was lower, but prices didn't change. The company could pocket the difference... and that's just how it went, at least until the consumer wised up and realized what was happening : a quiet substitution of Chinese-made cheap products but keeping yesterday's premium price. Cheap tool at top-dollar price. Tradesmen are not fools -- they know when their tools are not holding up, and they're being cheated. So the consumer rightly felt cheated and abandoned the brand. Sears broke the contract, and quickly lost the trust. In just a few years, they destroyed one of the most trusted brands which took 100 years to build. The brand was sold off, and now it's just another meaningless string of letters. Today, Sears is dead and gone, for many reasons just like this. Good riddance.
- abstrakraft 3y ago
  [flagged]
- indymike 3y ago
  > Sears broke the contract, and quickly lost the trust. In just a few years, they destroyed one of the most trusted brands which took 100 years to build. The brand was sold off, and now it's just another meaningless string of letters. Today, Sears is dead and gone, for many reasons just like this. Good riddance. What actually happened: Sears got rolled up with KMart, eventually went out of business. Sears house brands like Craftsman and Kenmore (home appliances) were sold off during the fire sale at the end. Ironically, Sears was the Amazon of the early 1900s but became too invested in big mall stores. When the ecommerce boom hit, Sears had just closed down their catalog division.
  - dismalpedigree 3y ago
glitcher 3y ago
So then clickbait title should be modified to say "low-price wrench"? Makes sense that fairly paid labor is going to result in more expensive products that the end consumer will likely pass over if it's lacking in quality. And many consumers don't shop with these issues in mind. If they're on a tight budget and just need to fix something, lowest price may be their only priority. Tough problem to address from all angles.

by gnat 3y ago

PaulHoule 3y ago

The automation heavy factory that they couldn’t get to work is an old story.

stefan_ 3y ago

That's not interesting, it is the utterly predictable result of not making anything. Of course the only ones getting better at it and making machines for it are those doing the manufacturing.

dilyevsky 3y ago
That’s not true in chip making for example
- rasz 3y ago
  True in chip _making_, not yet true in chip design.
  - dilyevsky 3y ago
    Although not american, ASML is not chinese / taiwanese either where most of chips are made.
    - rasz 3y ago
      ASML doesnt make chips.
      - dilyevsky 3y ago
        I’m aware. I think you should reread original comment I was replying to

MuffinFlavored 3y ago

> by low-cost Chinese labour. Why are Chinese willing to do labor for low-cost while Americans are "unwilling/uninterested" in such labor?

whatshisface 3y ago
Because the country has lower standards of living and a government that busts independent unions while deliberately manipulating their currency to make sure workers do not end up with too much buying power.
the_only_law 3y ago
Probably because the American couldn’t even pay for housing on wage the Chinese worker can.
BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
Different places have different costs of living.
- ahoka 3y ago
  Unfortunately, higher cost of living doesn’t automatically raise wages though.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    While true in the abstract, that's not germane here.
harywilke 3y ago
Cost of living is somewhere between 40% to 70% less in China.
- roenxi 3y ago
  That is a bit circular. The economy isn't like weather where some places just have less rain. China's cost of living is 40-70% lower because the people doing the work are willing to charge less.

happytiger 3y ago

The only problem with the argument is that it’s completely false (not you, the company). > These days, China's labor costs are only 4% cheaper than those in the U.S. when productivity is factored in, according to Oxford Economics. https://money.cnn.com/2016/03/17/news/economy/china-cheap-labor-productivity/#:~:text=These%20days%2C%20China's%20labor%20costs,in%2C%20according%20to%20Oxford%20Economics https://money.cnn.com/2016/03/17/news/economy/china-cheap-la.... So once you realize the company is using the excuse (lying?) about the labor excuse, then you have to wonder what the real reason is. Especially after their disaster of a 2022 (which was directly the result of supply chain problems in... Drum roll please... China). Good opinion piece: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4547012-stanley-black-and-decker-im-turning-away-from-this-turnaround-story https://seekingalpha.com/article/4547012-stanley-black-and-d... More information: https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/global_labor_rates_china_is_no_longer_a_low_cost_country https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/global_labor_rates_chi...

jncfhnb 3y ago
“Productivity” is a very hand wavey idea.
542458 3y ago
I’m not really sure how that’s possible - when I’ve gotten quotes for short run highly automated manufacturing (the stuff the US should be comparatively good at!), the overseas numbers are usually about half those of the US on a per part basis. IIRC can try this for yourself on Xometry by changing the manufacturing location. But there’s also more than just labor cost. In my experience: when we ask a Chinese manufacturer about something they don’t have the capability to do, they’ll come back with subcontracting options from the factory down the road who can do it. There’s so much manufacturing capability concentrated in a small number of places that every process option is on the table. But in North America, it’s a very different story. Everything is so spread out so your options are dramatically more limited unless you want to be shipping parts across the country. I’m not saying NA-based manufacturing is bad: the org I work for still does most stuff here for agility, communication, and security reasons. But it’s not cheap. Opinions are my own.
- 3y ago

jackhack 3y ago

"a low-price tools brand" Excuse me, but what? The Craftsman brand historically was a consumer premium brand, priced midway between tradesmen premium brands like Snap-On and consumer "hardware store cheap tools" -- Craftsman was never a low-price brand. Craftsman used to stand for quality, with a lifetime no-questions-asked guarantee wherein, if the tool fails for any reason, it will be replaced. Period. No questions asked, no receipt required. Quality. And men proudly used their father's or grandfather's tools. I remember well when Craftsman moved hand tool manufacturing from USA to China. Clearly cost of production was lower, but prices didn't change. The company could pocket the difference... and that's just how it went, at least until the consumer wised up and realized what was happening : a quiet substitution of Chinese-made cheap products but keeping yesterday's premium price. Cheap tool at top-dollar price. Tradesmen are not fools -- they know when their tools are not holding up, and they're being cheated. So the consumer rightly felt cheated and abandoned the brand. Sears broke the contract, and quickly lost the trust. In just a few years, they destroyed one of the most trusted brands which took 100 years to build. The brand was sold off, and now it's just another meaningless string of letters. Today, Sears is dead and gone, for many reasons just like this. Good riddance.

abstrakraft 3y ago
[flagged]
indymike 3y ago
> Sears broke the contract, and quickly lost the trust. In just a few years, they destroyed one of the most trusted brands which took 100 years to build. The brand was sold off, and now it's just another meaningless string of letters. Today, Sears is dead and gone, for many reasons just like this. Good riddance. What actually happened: Sears got rolled up with KMart, eventually went out of business. Sears house brands like Craftsman and Kenmore (home appliances) were sold off during the fire sale at the end. Ironically, Sears was the Amazon of the early 1900s but became too invested in big mall stores. When the ecommerce boom hit, Sears had just closed down their catalog division.
- dismalpedigree 3y ago

glitcher 3y ago

So then clickbait title should be modified to say "low-price wrench"? Makes sense that fairly paid labor is going to result in more expensive products that the end consumer will likely pass over if it's lacking in quality. And many consumers don't shop with these issues in mind. If they're on a tight budget and just need to fix something, lowest price may be their only priority. Tough problem to address from all angles.