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California wants to create a driver’s license for electric bikes

11 points by mfiguiere 3y ago

getarofilter 3y ago
[dead]
WheelsAtLarge 3y ago
Yes, it's getting nuts out there. Around where I live people regularly ride their electric bikes or electric scooters on the sidewalk, many without much regard for pedestrians. Dealt with a guy that was riding his bike at high speed and expected people to get out of his way rather than he slowing down. Basically he was terrorizing people on the sidewalk. I don't know if it's still the case but people had to buy a license, in the past, for a regular bike but that was more of a tax on using the street not a safety issue. We need one for safety for electric bikes more than ever.
- nobody9999 3y ago
  >Around where I live people regularly ride their electric bikes or electric scooters on the sidewalk, many without much regard for pedestrians. That's illegal where I live[0], and not just for e-bikes. Unfortunately, people still do it, of course. In fact, I quoted RCNY 4-07 (c)(3) [see below] to three young women riding Citibikes[1] on the sidewalk the other day. I get that folks are afraid of cars (especially since most drivers pay exactly zero attention to anything they can kill/maim by hitting and only worry about the panel trucks and buses), but the solution isn't to endanger pedestrians on the sidewalk. Rather, providing separated bike lanes makes much more sense. Unfortunately, the pervasive car culture (especially in the US, cf. Jaywalking[2]) makes such changes less likely, especially outside of urban areas. And more's the pity Admin Code – 19-176 – Bicycles ridden on sidewalks may be confiscated and riders may be subject to legal sanctions (see also: RCNY § 4-07(c) (3) RCNY 4-07 (c) (3) No driving bikes on sidewalks, unless sign allows or wheels are less than 26 inches in diameter and rider is twelve years or younger RCNY 4-14 (c) No person shall ride a bicycle in any park, except in places designated for bike riding; but persons may push bikes in single file to and from such places, except on beaches and boardwalks. [0] https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-summary-of-ny-state-bike-laws#nycsidewalk https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-sum... [1] https://citibikenyc.com/ https://citibikenyc.com/ [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/03/01/how-jaywalking-became-a-crime/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/03/01/...
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    Cool you should walk around with a QR Code Tee Shirt with that stuff, so they can easily link out to the fulltext.
greyface- 3y ago
Following the "according to reports" link in the article, we see comments from a legislator who sponsors the bill, justifying it based on the recent deaths of two e-bike riders in her district. In both cases, the deaths were the result of a collision with a motor vehicle. But the response is to demand licensing from e-bike riders, rather than stricter liability for drivers?
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  A gray area is insurance for cyclists and scooter riders. I have been told that my renter's insurance covers scooter accidents, but I'm not so sure. I won't call my insurance agency, because every time I've done that, they scream denials and repudiate the policy I show them (which was watermarked "SAMPLE" anyway) and generally do CYA things. Lesson: Insurance Agencies aren't the ones who will tell you whether [poorly-specified future hypothetical event] would be covered.
kop316 3y ago
"The move is in response to many young electric bike riders who often take to the streets without having tested for or received a typical driver’s license for a standard car." It sounds like the license would be required for anyone without a drivers license. Which, assuming the e-bike is operating on the road, is not that unreasonable.
_8j50 3y ago
One big reason i avoid cars is because you need a license and that means more interaction with the police and dmv. If there is a good reason for this I don't mind, but it makes ebikes less desirable. If you think about it, they are the only means of transportation in a city that can transport you commuting distances without having to interact with the government (public transportation has their own surveillance and police). Regular bikes are impractical in high humidity and heat, and >2-3mi daily is too much for most people.
- lotsoweiners 3y ago
  Sounds like you’re going to just have to deal with it like the rest of us do. Anecdotally, as a daily car driver I haven’t had an interaction with a cop in over 20 years.
  - _8j50 3y ago
    No I don't, I am not you.
- ecf 3y ago
  An e-bike is closer to a car or motorcycle than it is a bike, why do you believe they should be treated differently?
  - _8j50 3y ago
    Closer and the same are different things. The speed ebikes operate is acheivable by bikes and ebikes have to follow bike laws and operate as a bike would. Do you think ebikes should be in car lanes like motorcycles are? The danger ebikes pose to the rider or other vehicles is comparable to a bike rider riding fast and this is covered under bike law.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Good, I support this. I have long harbored confusion over my municipality's statutes on bicyclists. In some ways, it appears that a driver license is necessary to ride a bicycle, at least in the street and not on the sidewalks. For example, there are infractions and offenses that will affect your driver license, add points, incur suspension, etc. So if a person offends in this way, but does not hold a driver license, how are they accountable instead? It doesn't seem just. Is it preferable for a drunk to ride an (acoustic or electric) bike home? On the sidewalk or in the streets? Better not have a driver license if you do!
- pests 3y ago
  Where I live it's illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. Sidewalks are for pedestrians. it's also illegal to ride a bike drunk. You can be fired for a DUI.
SamReidHughes 3y ago
I've had the misfortune of living in the district of the Assemblywoman behind this and getting email updates elucidating her PTA mom worldview. She is making a perfect transition from Covid neuroticism to this control-other-peoples'-kids lawmaking. I bet she picks her kids up from the bus stop every day.
- ecf 3y ago
  > control-other-peoples'-kids lawmaking. > I bet she picks her kids up from the bus stop every day. These electric bikes are capable of speeding someone up to 25mph+ unassisted, with me (an averagely trained cyclist) being able to hit 40-50mph on flat ground with effort. They aren’t coming for your kid’s pedal bike.

11 points by mfiguiere 3y ago

[dead]

Yes, it's getting nuts out there. Around where I live people regularly ride their electric bikes or electric scooters on the sidewalk, many without much regard for pedestrians. Dealt with a guy that was riding his bike at high speed and expected people to get out of his way rather than he slowing down. Basically he was terrorizing people on the sidewalk. I don't know if it's still the case but people had to buy a license, in the past, for a regular bike but that was more of a tax on using the street not a safety issue. We need one for safety for electric bikes more than ever.

nobody9999 3y ago
>Around where I live people regularly ride their electric bikes or electric scooters on the sidewalk, many without much regard for pedestrians. That's illegal where I live[0], and not just for e-bikes. Unfortunately, people still do it, of course. In fact, I quoted RCNY 4-07 (c)(3) [see below] to three young women riding Citibikes[1] on the sidewalk the other day. I get that folks are afraid of cars (especially since most drivers pay exactly zero attention to anything they can kill/maim by hitting and only worry about the panel trucks and buses), but the solution isn't to endanger pedestrians on the sidewalk. Rather, providing separated bike lanes makes much more sense. Unfortunately, the pervasive car culture (especially in the US, cf. Jaywalking[2]) makes such changes less likely, especially outside of urban areas. And more's the pity Admin Code – 19-176 – Bicycles ridden on sidewalks may be confiscated and riders may be subject to legal sanctions (see also: RCNY § 4-07(c) (3) RCNY 4-07 (c) (3) No driving bikes on sidewalks, unless sign allows or wheels are less than 26 inches in diameter and rider is twelve years or younger RCNY 4-14 (c) No person shall ride a bicycle in any park, except in places designated for bike riding; but persons may push bikes in single file to and from such places, except on beaches and boardwalks. [0] https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-summary-of-ny-state-bike-laws#nycsidewalk https://nybc.net/education/bike-law/2-uncategorised/68-a-sum... [1] https://citibikenyc.com/ https://citibikenyc.com/ [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/03/01/how-jaywalking-became-a-crime/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/03/01/...
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Cool you should walk around with a QR Code Tee Shirt with that stuff, so they can easily link out to the fulltext.

greyface- 3y ago

Following the "according to reports" link in the article, we see comments from a legislator who sponsors the bill, justifying it based on the recent deaths of two e-bike riders in her district. In both cases, the deaths were the result of a collision with a motor vehicle. But the response is to demand licensing from e-bike riders, rather than stricter liability for drivers?

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
A gray area is insurance for cyclists and scooter riders. I have been told that my renter's insurance covers scooter accidents, but I'm not so sure. I won't call my insurance agency, because every time I've done that, they scream denials and repudiate the policy I show them (which was watermarked "SAMPLE" anyway) and generally do CYA things. Lesson: Insurance Agencies aren't the ones who will tell you whether [poorly-specified future hypothetical event] would be covered.

kop316 3y ago

"The move is in response to many young electric bike riders who often take to the streets without having tested for or received a typical driver’s license for a standard car." It sounds like the license would be required for anyone without a drivers license. Which, assuming the e-bike is operating on the road, is not that unreasonable.

_8j50 3y ago

One big reason i avoid cars is because you need a license and that means more interaction with the police and dmv. If there is a good reason for this I don't mind, but it makes ebikes less desirable. If you think about it, they are the only means of transportation in a city that can transport you commuting distances without having to interact with the government (public transportation has their own surveillance and police). Regular bikes are impractical in high humidity and heat, and >2-3mi daily is too much for most people.

lotsoweiners 3y ago
Sounds like you’re going to just have to deal with it like the rest of us do. Anecdotally, as a daily car driver I haven’t had an interaction with a cop in over 20 years.
- _8j50 3y ago
  No I don't, I am not you.
ecf 3y ago
An e-bike is closer to a car or motorcycle than it is a bike, why do you believe they should be treated differently?
- _8j50 3y ago
  Closer and the same are different things. The speed ebikes operate is acheivable by bikes and ebikes have to follow bike laws and operate as a bike would. Do you think ebikes should be in car lanes like motorcycles are? The danger ebikes pose to the rider or other vehicles is comparable to a bike rider riding fast and this is covered under bike law.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

Good, I support this. I have long harbored confusion over my municipality's statutes on bicyclists. In some ways, it appears that a driver license is necessary to ride a bicycle, at least in the street and not on the sidewalks. For example, there are infractions and offenses that will affect your driver license, add points, incur suspension, etc. So if a person offends in this way, but does not hold a driver license, how are they accountable instead? It doesn't seem just. Is it preferable for a drunk to ride an (acoustic or electric) bike home? On the sidewalk or in the streets? Better not have a driver license if you do!

pests 3y ago
Where I live it's illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. Sidewalks are for pedestrians. it's also illegal to ride a bike drunk. You can be fired for a DUI.

SamReidHughes 3y ago

I've had the misfortune of living in the district of the Assemblywoman behind this and getting email updates elucidating her PTA mom worldview. She is making a perfect transition from Covid neuroticism to this control-other-peoples'-kids lawmaking. I bet she picks her kids up from the bus stop every day.

ecf 3y ago
> control-other-peoples'-kids lawmaking. > I bet she picks her kids up from the bus stop every day. These electric bikes are capable of speeding someone up to 25mph+ unassisted, with me (an averagely trained cyclist) being able to hit 40-50mph on flat ground with effort. They aren’t coming for your kid’s pedal bike.