3 ms·

I worry that the urban landscape affects the mental state of many or most of the people who choose to live in Manhattan--not merely of people sufficiently like

I worry that the urban landscape affects the mental state of many or most of the people who choose to live in Manhattan--not merely of people sufficiently like me--but I admit I have no reason to believe that beyond the fact that many cities have height restrictions on buildings.

tptacek 3y ago
Do you think the additional 6 floors that got added to this as-of-right 36-floor building pose a meaningful additional risk?
- hollerith 3y ago
  I wouldn't use the predicate "pose risk", but yes, the difference between 36 floors and 42 floors seems meaningful. This North Tower in Atlanta I found slightly-but-consistently oppressive was and is only 29 stories (403 feet): https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/9208476088/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/9208476088/in/photostre... More importantly, even at 36 floors, the building under discussion would already have been much taller than most of the buildings around it: https://cdn.chime.me/elegran-image/52cfa1bca73e6f084f007545-13.jpg https://cdn.chime.me/elegran-image/52cfa1bca73e6f084f007545-... There are thousands of tall buildings in Manhattan, so in the grand scheme of things, one tall building doesn't matter much to any non-hysterical person, but you already know that, so maybe I am missing something about your question. In general, I'm for removing many kinds of restrictions on housing construction, including in Manhattan, just not restrictions on building height although I'm not a fan of the way Manhattan's restrictions work, where the excess height of one building can be "offset" (by the owner of the one paying money to the owner of the other) by another landowner's choosing to build shorter than it is allowed to build, which allowed blights on the landscape like 432 Park Avenue, the very tall building in the left half of this photo: https://media.architecturaldigest.com/photos/6143755d91beee6179a37990/16:9/w_2560%2Cc_limit/432Park_Ext02.jpg https://media.architecturaldigest.com/photos/6143755d91beee6... Contrast those photos of Manhattan with these 2 of K Street in DC (which has height restrictions that cannot be offset like Manhattan's can): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Washington_DC_K_at_17th_street_winter.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Washingt... https://jamesposey.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1401-K-St-0005.jpg https://jamesposey.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1401-K-St-...
akerl_ 3y ago
Are you saying you think existing height restrictions in cities are driven by concern for the mental health of people in/around them?
- hollerith 3y ago
  I would have guessed so, yes, (being in a skyscraper is fine, my concern is having to be outside it) though I prefer to say aesthetic concerns. There are studies showing that murders are more likely in locations where no trees are visible, to give an example of the effect of landscape on state of mind. I'm guessing you believe that height restrictions are driven largely by owners of existing buildings conspiring to keep rents high.
  - akerl_ 3y ago
    I’m not sure why we’d be relying on what either of us believe, when we can look up details about legal height restrictions. I did some hunting and can’t find any arguments from the people who proposed or passed any such legislation that it was for mental health benefits. Can you?
    - hollerith 3y ago
      I would be interested to read here what arguments you did find.

tptacek 3y ago

Do you think the additional 6 floors that got added to this as-of-right 36-floor building pose a meaningful additional risk?

hollerith 3y ago
I wouldn't use the predicate "pose risk", but yes, the difference between 36 floors and 42 floors seems meaningful. This North Tower in Atlanta I found slightly-but-consistently oppressive was and is only 29 stories (403 feet): https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/9208476088/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/9208476088/in/photostre... More importantly, even at 36 floors, the building under discussion would already have been much taller than most of the buildings around it: https://cdn.chime.me/elegran-image/52cfa1bca73e6f084f007545-13.jpg https://cdn.chime.me/elegran-image/52cfa1bca73e6f084f007545-... There are thousands of tall buildings in Manhattan, so in the grand scheme of things, one tall building doesn't matter much to any non-hysterical person, but you already know that, so maybe I am missing something about your question. In general, I'm for removing many kinds of restrictions on housing construction, including in Manhattan, just not restrictions on building height although I'm not a fan of the way Manhattan's restrictions work, where the excess height of one building can be "offset" (by the owner of the one paying money to the owner of the other) by another landowner's choosing to build shorter than it is allowed to build, which allowed blights on the landscape like 432 Park Avenue, the very tall building in the left half of this photo: https://media.architecturaldigest.com/photos/6143755d91beee6179a37990/16:9/w_2560%2Cc_limit/432Park_Ext02.jpg https://media.architecturaldigest.com/photos/6143755d91beee6... Contrast those photos of Manhattan with these 2 of K Street in DC (which has height restrictions that cannot be offset like Manhattan's can): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Washington_DC_K_at_17th_street_winter.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Washingt... https://jamesposey.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1401-K-St-0005.jpg https://jamesposey.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1401-K-St-...

akerl_ 3y ago

Are you saying you think existing height restrictions in cities are driven by concern for the mental health of people in/around them?

hollerith 3y ago
I would have guessed so, yes, (being in a skyscraper is fine, my concern is having to be outside it) though I prefer to say aesthetic concerns. There are studies showing that murders are more likely in locations where no trees are visible, to give an example of the effect of landscape on state of mind. I'm guessing you believe that height restrictions are driven largely by owners of existing buildings conspiring to keep rents high.
- akerl_ 3y ago
  I’m not sure why we’d be relying on what either of us believe, when we can look up details about legal height restrictions. I did some hunting and can’t find any arguments from the people who proposed or passed any such legislation that it was for mental health benefits. Can you?
  - hollerith 3y ago
    I would be interested to read here what arguments you did find.