4 ms·
I wonder how many of those alcoholics moved on to psychedelics after treatment :) You guys are downvoting me, but at the time addiction and alcoholism were con
by rjurney 15y ago
I wonder how many of those alcoholics moved on to psychedelics after treatment :)
You guys are downvoting me, but at the time addiction and alcoholism were considered separate phenomenon. Psychedelics being new, nobody predicted the 1970s and burnt out hippies, thus the study doesn't seem to take into account alcoholics becoming drug addicts.
- INTPenis 15y agoGood point if you've grown up around addicts you'll know that it's VERY common for them to simply substitute one drug for another. In the lucky cases they substitute meth with alcohol, tobacco and coffee but I could totally picture someone going for cannabis, LSD instead of alcohol. Essentially, it's a psychological thing and it's rarely about the substance itself. LSD is just a replacement for the god experience. However I'd take this opportunity to recommend the documentary Ibogaine - A rite of passage.
- pork 15y agoNot a good point AT ALL. LSD tolerance builds up over absurdly short times. If you take a dose today, and another tomorrow, you'll experience drastically fewer effects. Thus, you never hear of "LSD addicts". There may be other psychological dangers involved for certain individuals, but addiction is not going to be a concern, for purely physiological reasons.
- rjurney 15y agoSeriously? People take too much acid, get real into drug culture and end up living in a bus down by the river. Over time psychedelics can erode the mind.
- loopdoend 15y agoPerhaps they're suffering from HPPD, which can happen to some people. LSD is not 100% safe. Regardless, I think it is more likely they moved on to other drugs as hallucinogens aren't the kind of thing you'd want to take every day or get addicted to.
- m_eiman 15y agohallucinogens aren't the kind of thing you'd want to take every day or get addicted to. what kind of drugs do you want to get addicted to?
- rms 15y agoDopamine agonists (heroin, cocaine, Farmville, et al.) are the kinds of drugs that people get addicted to. They are not the kinds of things you would want to get addicted to. Heroin and cocaine have other actions beyond dopamine, but Farmville and friends are a rather beautiful example of pure dopamine engines. The attached money pump increases the evil factor.
- gruseom 15y agoI don't think it's a good point at all, unless it comes with some evidence. There is so much FUD, wishful thinking, and social harm surrounding this topic that we need to be particularly careful with it.
- rjurney 15y agoI haven't read the study, but given the attitudes towards alcoholism and addiction at the time, the tests wouldn't have followed up to see if the alcoholics were binging on psychedelics... which plenty of people did in that era.
- abibibo 15y agoI see your point with many substances, but to characterize psychedelics as such is to completely misunderstand their effect and misunderstand the reason they may be of benefit in cases of addiction. But, such misunderstanding is understandable. Honestly, the best I can do is to describe the experience is to relate it to a shift in perspective ... like looking at a wire-frame drawing of a cube and mentally flipping which side is nearer. You never can see both frames of reference at the same time. Even when I experimented with lsd (many years ago), precisely because of this shift I'd never really be able to remember or comprehend what I was getting into--let alone describe it--until I was in it. And when your in it, its seeing without the safety barriers your subconscious has erected. I've heard Buddhists monks relate: its like catching a glimpse of Nirvana without the spiritual work necessary to prepare you for it. Yes, seeing the awesome potential and absolute miracle of consciousness and life can be a truly ecstatic experience. But, being brought face-to-face with your failings and inadequacies before you're ready to see can be equally harrowing. Towards the end, I was left to realize that although I kept showing up to class the lessons were over. The experience was no longer pleasurable, just disorienting. For most, it eventually becomes obvious that what you're experiencing is only a tired picture and that there is real work still to be done.
- itmag 15y agoAnd when your in it, its seeing without the safety barriers your subconscious has erected This is very interesting. Can you tell me more?
- itmag 15y agoWhat can you tell me about Ibogaine? Mind telling me more? :)
- geoffw8 15y agoHey - put it into Google scholar search. Essentially, around 100 addicts take the substance while trying to get off of heroin, most of them never get a withdrawal symptom from Heroin, and are off it. Some go straight back to Heroin and a guy dies, I think. They draw plenty of conclusions, you'll see if you do that Google search.
- rdl 15y agoOne of the guys who used to run NYC's hacker ISP is now involved in Ibogaine research at a university somewhere -- it seems like a pretty legitimate medical treatment for addiction. maps.org is the source I trust the most for information on current drug research. They funded the PTSD MDMA study as well as other work.
- itmag 15y agoSounds like an interesting dude - mind giving me his email or something? Also, how goes it with that thing you emailed me about like a month ago? :)