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Posture is very important. What’s also important is not trusting a chiropractor, like this article (previously) stated: chiropractic is a quack medicine[1] that

Posture is very important. What’s also important is not trusting a chiropractor, like this article (previously) stated: chiropractic is a quack medicine[1] that ranges somewhere between harmless (but falsely advertised) massage and dangerous, sometimes fatal, spinal manipulation[2]. Edit: Amended to reflect the fact that this was likely a translation error. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic [2]: https://web.archive.org/web/20100516074554/http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/100/7/330 https://web.archive.org/web/20100516074554/http://jrsm.rsmjo...

thepostman0 3y ago
Obligatory bullshit episode: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0771272/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0771272/
- overlordalex 3y ago
  Obligatory Behind the Bastards podcast episode: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/ https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...
sedivy94 3y ago
The chiropractor’s assessment, as mentioned in the article, is consistent with the research I’ve gathered over a decade of amateur bodybuilding and powerlifting. I would bet many athletes will disagree with the above sentiment surrounding chiropractors. I personally haven’t met one practicing holistic medicine. What I primarily see in practices is active release therapy (ART), Graston, cupping, along with traditional physical therapy - an aggregate of effective soft tissue and joint manipulation techniques. Back cracks just happen to come with the package.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  The assessment might be correct; this does not make a chiropractor qualified to make it.
spondylosaurus 3y ago
Thank you! It shocks me how many people don't know this. If your back is giving you hell, you don't want a chiropractor, you want an orthopedist. And that orthopedist will probably refer you to a physical therapist, which is where the magic really happens.
- xnyan 3y ago
  And if you don't have an orthopedic problem, or are just looking for therapeutic pain relief, or maybe trying to convince a family member not to subject themselves to medical charlatans, you can get all the benefits of a chiropractor without the b.s. from a massage therapist.
therealdrag0 3y ago
I agree the fields origins are quack and much of ongoing proceedings are quack, but IME many of them have just as deep anatomic knowledge as the PTs and have cross training in the same studies and theories as PTs. I think the field is trying to legitimize itself and many practitioners are involved in gyms and sports where real results matter and where they rub shoulders with other therapists and doctors picking up the good ideas and “best practices”. All that to say I wish the field would die but the amount of quackery can vary very widely between chiros from little more than a pop factory to essentially the same experience as an average PT.
- kaba0 3y ago
  You still need only one that didn’t pick up enough real medicine to cause blindness, stroke and/or hemi-paresis. We have qualifications for a reason.
schlowmo 3y ago
> What’s also important is not trusting a chiropractor While I totally agree I would extend this recommendation to not trust anyone who does spinal manipulation without proper knowledge, since practioners of quackery use a lot of job titles. This especially includes osteopathy (maybe with the exception of the US variant "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine", I only know the european kind) - damaging the spinal cord or big blood vessels with slow motions doesn't make it less damaging. As a rule of thumb: If it looks like a quack, swims like a quack, and quacks like a quack, then it probably is a quack. There may be anecdotal evidence for it being some kind of miracle cure, but I can also tell anecdotes of people getting bonus stays at the local hospitals stroke unit after visting an ostheopath.
tagawa 3y ago
Author here. I may have made a mistake. I live in Japan and go to a 接骨院 which I assumed was a chiropractor, but maybe osteopath is a better definition? I've updated the article to reflect this. I didn't realise there was a difference – lack of research on my part, sorry.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Thank for you responding! Translation is hard, and there's nothing to apologize for -- I've also edited my comment. (FWIW, "osteopathy" is also a quack practice, in the US. It's distinct from osteopathic medicine, which is an actual medical science. But it might be hard to translate that distinction; if your practitioner has a medical degree, then they're the "real" one.)
  - tagawa 3y ago
    Thanks. I'm learning a lot all of a sudden! The profile on the wall of the clinic looked OK to me, but I'll read more carefully next time I go.
    - lexicality 3y ago
      I had an osteopath cause serious damage to my back trying to fix it and had to spend 2 years in physical therapy. I strongly recommend sticking with licensed physios for diagnoses and sports massages for muscle release. It's more expensive, but you only get one spine per life and I can tell you from acute experience that you don't want someone to damage it trying to get that last satisfying cracking noise out of it.
TheAceOfHearts 3y ago
Sometimes on social media I get shown videos of chiropractors practicing on babies which looks really scary. If there's such a high risk factor I don't understand how it can remain legal and not be scrutinized more closely. As for the field as a whole, I don't fully know what to make of it. My understanding is that some fairly large and prominent companies (think Fortune 100) keep multiple chiropractors on retainer for their employee's benefit. Is it possible that there's something of value there which isn't fully understood or are these companies just acting irrationally? Worded a bit differently: if it's a scam, why are so many big companies paying for these services?
- xnyan 3y ago
  Chiropractors are basically dangerous and overpriced massage therapists who pretend to be doctors (complete with their own brand of pseudoscience) to ape the legitimacy of real medicine. Massage feels great, but many people feel uncomfortable about it, or don't take it seriously because the provider is not wearing a white coat, or there's no clear "science" behind it. Chiropractors don't massage you see, they correct your subluxations (which are totally real and not made up) with the application of pressure to the body. People walk away from a treatment feeling good, and Chiropractors leverage that to convince them that their services are more that what they are, strange and somewhat risky massage therapy. While magical beliefs (misalignment of your bones causes literally all problems with your health) are still common, the industry learned to be careful about what legally relevant claims they make and generally represent themselves as a kind of physical therapist that can help you with back pain. Because of this (and lots of lobbying dollars) they have gained real legitimacy in the legal/medical sense and can even get reimbursed by insurance for their services. TLDR: they get hired because people like them, and they've built a passible veneer of legitimacy.
  - sixstringtheory 3y ago
    > they correct your subluxations > misalignment of your bones causes literally all problems with your health Sounds like scientologist anatomy
- kaba0 3y ago
mellosouls 3y ago
An opportunity for a reminder that chiropractors attempted to sue a respected science journalist (Fermat's Last Theorem author Simon Singh) into bankruptcy for criticising their "science": https://wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh https://wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_... It backfired. "...before the case closed, a quarter of all members of the British Chiropractic Association were under formal investigation"
BatFastard 3y ago
Some chiropractors are amazing, most are questionable. I was in a motorcycle accident, one leg is now shorter than the other. I used to hike a lot, but back pain grew worse and worse. Went to an orthopedic doctor, he literally said "that is the price for walking on two legs", did nothing to help me. Started going to chiropractors, since I could not sleep at night with out horrid back pain. After 10 different chiropractors, I finally found a good one. He practiced something call DNFT (directional non force therapy). No cracking of the back or neck. Just gentle pressure on different parts of my spine. Amazingly it worked wonders! I go back every 5 years or so for a tune up. Its black magic but it worked for me.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  From your story, it sounds like you tried one orthopedic doctor, but 10/11 chiropractors. Why did you keep trying more chiropractors but not more ”real” medicine?
  - BatFastard 3y ago
    Hm.. Interesting question. It felt like it one doctor pronounced it, others would follow suit, but I can see I was mistaken there. However, it seems like there are two options, surgery, and physical therapy. Maybe I should have given the PT route a chance.

thepostman0 3y ago

Obligatory bullshit episode: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0771272/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0771272/

overlordalex 3y ago
Obligatory Behind the Bastards podcast episode: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/how-chiropractic-started-as-a-ghost-48498573/ https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

sedivy94 3y ago

The chiropractor’s assessment, as mentioned in the article, is consistent with the research I’ve gathered over a decade of amateur bodybuilding and powerlifting. I would bet many athletes will disagree with the above sentiment surrounding chiropractors. I personally haven’t met one practicing holistic medicine. What I primarily see in practices is active release therapy (ART), Graston, cupping, along with traditional physical therapy - an aggregate of effective soft tissue and joint manipulation techniques. Back cracks just happen to come with the package.

woodruffw 3y ago
The assessment might be correct; this does not make a chiropractor qualified to make it.

spondylosaurus 3y ago

Thank you! It shocks me how many people don't know this. If your back is giving you hell, you don't want a chiropractor, you want an orthopedist. And that orthopedist will probably refer you to a physical therapist, which is where the magic really happens.

xnyan 3y ago
And if you don't have an orthopedic problem, or are just looking for therapeutic pain relief, or maybe trying to convince a family member not to subject themselves to medical charlatans, you can get all the benefits of a chiropractor without the b.s. from a massage therapist.

therealdrag0 3y ago

I agree the fields origins are quack and much of ongoing proceedings are quack, but IME many of them have just as deep anatomic knowledge as the PTs and have cross training in the same studies and theories as PTs. I think the field is trying to legitimize itself and many practitioners are involved in gyms and sports where real results matter and where they rub shoulders with other therapists and doctors picking up the good ideas and “best practices”. All that to say I wish the field would die but the amount of quackery can vary very widely between chiros from little more than a pop factory to essentially the same experience as an average PT.

kaba0 3y ago
You still need only one that didn’t pick up enough real medicine to cause blindness, stroke and/or hemi-paresis. We have qualifications for a reason.

schlowmo 3y ago

> What’s also important is not trusting a chiropractor While I totally agree I would extend this recommendation to not trust anyone who does spinal manipulation without proper knowledge, since practioners of quackery use a lot of job titles. This especially includes osteopathy (maybe with the exception of the US variant "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine", I only know the european kind) - damaging the spinal cord or big blood vessels with slow motions doesn't make it less damaging. As a rule of thumb: If it looks like a quack, swims like a quack, and quacks like a quack, then it probably is a quack. There may be anecdotal evidence for it being some kind of miracle cure, but I can also tell anecdotes of people getting bonus stays at the local hospitals stroke unit after visting an ostheopath.

tagawa 3y ago

Author here. I may have made a mistake. I live in Japan and go to a 接骨院 which I assumed was a chiropractor, but maybe osteopath is a better definition? I've updated the article to reflect this. I didn't realise there was a difference – lack of research on my part, sorry.

woodruffw 3y ago
Thank for you responding! Translation is hard, and there's nothing to apologize for -- I've also edited my comment. (FWIW, "osteopathy" is also a quack practice, in the US. It's distinct from osteopathic medicine, which is an actual medical science. But it might be hard to translate that distinction; if your practitioner has a medical degree, then they're the "real" one.)
- tagawa 3y ago
  Thanks. I'm learning a lot all of a sudden! The profile on the wall of the clinic looked OK to me, but I'll read more carefully next time I go.
  - lexicality 3y ago
    I had an osteopath cause serious damage to my back trying to fix it and had to spend 2 years in physical therapy. I strongly recommend sticking with licensed physios for diagnoses and sports massages for muscle release. It's more expensive, but you only get one spine per life and I can tell you from acute experience that you don't want someone to damage it trying to get that last satisfying cracking noise out of it.

TheAceOfHearts 3y ago

Sometimes on social media I get shown videos of chiropractors practicing on babies which looks really scary. If there's such a high risk factor I don't understand how it can remain legal and not be scrutinized more closely. As for the field as a whole, I don't fully know what to make of it. My understanding is that some fairly large and prominent companies (think Fortune 100) keep multiple chiropractors on retainer for their employee's benefit. Is it possible that there's something of value there which isn't fully understood or are these companies just acting irrationally? Worded a bit differently: if it's a scam, why are so many big companies paying for these services?

xnyan 3y ago
Chiropractors are basically dangerous and overpriced massage therapists who pretend to be doctors (complete with their own brand of pseudoscience) to ape the legitimacy of real medicine. Massage feels great, but many people feel uncomfortable about it, or don't take it seriously because the provider is not wearing a white coat, or there's no clear "science" behind it. Chiropractors don't massage you see, they correct your subluxations (which are totally real and not made up) with the application of pressure to the body. People walk away from a treatment feeling good, and Chiropractors leverage that to convince them that their services are more that what they are, strange and somewhat risky massage therapy. While magical beliefs (misalignment of your bones causes literally all problems with your health) are still common, the industry learned to be careful about what legally relevant claims they make and generally represent themselves as a kind of physical therapist that can help you with back pain. Because of this (and lots of lobbying dollars) they have gained real legitimacy in the legal/medical sense and can even get reimbursed by insurance for their services. TLDR: they get hired because people like them, and they've built a passible veneer of legitimacy.
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  > they correct your subluxations > misalignment of your bones causes literally all problems with your health Sounds like scientologist anatomy
kaba0 3y ago

mellosouls 3y ago

An opportunity for a reminder that chiropractors attempted to sue a respected science journalist (Fermat's Last Theorem author Simon Singh) into bankruptcy for criticising their "science": https://wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh https://wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_... It backfired. "...before the case closed, a quarter of all members of the British Chiropractic Association were under formal investigation"

BatFastard 3y ago

Some chiropractors are amazing, most are questionable. I was in a motorcycle accident, one leg is now shorter than the other. I used to hike a lot, but back pain grew worse and worse. Went to an orthopedic doctor, he literally said "that is the price for walking on two legs", did nothing to help me. Started going to chiropractors, since I could not sleep at night with out horrid back pain. After 10 different chiropractors, I finally found a good one. He practiced something call DNFT (directional non force therapy). No cracking of the back or neck. Just gentle pressure on different parts of my spine. Amazingly it worked wonders! I go back every 5 years or so for a tune up. Its black magic but it worked for me.

LeafItAlone 3y ago
From your story, it sounds like you tried one orthopedic doctor, but 10/11 chiropractors. Why did you keep trying more chiropractors but not more ”real” medicine?
- BatFastard 3y ago
  Hm.. Interesting question. It felt like it one doctor pronounced it, others would follow suit, but I can see I was mistaken there. However, it seems like there are two options, surgery, and physical therapy. Maybe I should have given the PT route a chance.