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> Meanwhile all of my peer group is obsessed with FIRE and dream of retiring early. I'm a SWE and I would love to FIRE one day but the goal of my retirement is

> Meanwhile all of my peer group is obsessed with FIRE and dream of retiring early. I'm a SWE and I would love to FIRE one day but the goal of my retirement is very different from others. I want to buy some land with a house and a workshop, learn machining, chemistry, electrical engineering, etc and either contract for startups or start my own projects. Also, I'd like to bring some polish to the free software stack by rebuilding some foundational pieces of technology. It is very hard to have the energy to do a full day of work, come home, and do a full night of work. Unfortunately, the market is not set up in a way where creative people (who can transform various verticals) can get funded to do good work.

egwor 3y ago
I’ve been asking myself why I’m not already doing this now. Why not spend a bit of time on reading about it now?
- Zircom 3y ago
  I don't know about you but I'm mentally exhausted at the end of most days once I'm off work. It's relatively uncommon for me to even have energy to invest in my normal hobbies, let alone self-improvement/ learning new skills.
  - computerdork 3y ago
    Agree with this. Am a software engineer and musician (composition). Exhausting to do both. But, have also found you can switch between them if you're a consultant. You work on medium-term length projects, build up a bank, quit, then focus on your other interest for a few months. Need to live frugally, but it is possible (have been doing this cycle for years).
    - herewulf 3y ago
      Very interesting! Any chance you have written more extensively about this somewhere? I am a consultant but it's hard to get my clients to leave me alone for more than a week.
      - computerdork 3y ago
        Haven't written on this, but can give you the important details of my form of consulting: 1) I tend to work at medium to large companies (Stubhub, Atlassian...) from anywhere from 7 months to 1.5 years. The reason being, as mentioned, that it's tough to do two things at the highest level at the same time. So I prefer to completely commit to one thing at a time - seems like for you, you have a lot of longterm clients that are constantly hitting you up for work. Guessing you're going to have to say no to new projects once you're ready to focus more on your interests. 2) So, when I'm working on a consulting job, it is my primary focus, and they get the best of me. And, I try to do at least 7 months of work, so that I do a substantial amount of work for them and they feel good about it - also, if you do too short a period, it will make it harder to get another job later on. 3) Although, it's important that while working at a consulting job, to keep up and improve your skills at whatever your outside interest is. Because if you don't, wow, you can really lose your skills and when your switch back to your interest, will need a ton of time to refreshing yourself. For me as a musician, this means would spend an hour a day practicing before work, specifically "sight-singing" as it is one of the most important skills for composition. In fact, would actually not just maintain the skill, but got a better at it over the course the consulting job. 4) When you have enough money and finish your consulting job, quit and switch back to your main interest. Will typically need to spend some time getting back up to speed. Sometimes this can take one month, other times (if you did a really long consulting job or you find a new skill you want to learn as is often the case for me) it can take a few months. 5) Now, fully focus on your main interest. You need to treat it just like regular work because it requires a ton of discipline, because it is so easy to get distracted and not do anything (I say this as I write this comment to you as a distraction from practicing:) For me, need a weekly work schedule (work mon - friday) and a daily routine to keep on track. 6) And just a suggestion about any outside interest. Work on smaller projects rather than trying to shoot for the moon. Because everything is takes a lot more work to do it at the highest level. Yeah, if I aim to create a music composition that I think will take a couple month, it often takes 3 or 4 times that, especially if I'm trying out a lot of stuff that I've never done before. I'd rather create something small that is really good than work on something large that I'll never finish. 7) And at least in my opinion, using this method, the quality of my compositions is quite high (at least to my standards) as they are my primary focus for months at a time. 8) Oh, and live cheaply. I used to live in SF, but moved way outside the city to save money (saved like 40% on rent, which went from $1350 to $700 - living with roommates in both situations). Hope this helps!
- ngai_aku 3y ago
  Probably because most of us have feelings similar to what was expressed by the parent: > It is very hard to have the energy to do a full day of work, come home, and do a full night of work. I really enjoyed school, and I always thought I’d be the type to continue education via MOOCs, self-guided study, what have you. But it’s hard to fit it in after a full day of work and family time!
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    Same for me with learning new language (french) after long day at work... theoretically it should be fine and I know I should do it, but often the motivation is not there anymore at the end of the day, and you need some semi-constant momentum to get anywhere in these sustained efforts. And once you get kids, they are more effective than black holes with sucking out any time you could have for yourself. Its well spent time, don't get me wrong, most probably the best way to spend it for a parent, but personal efforts suffer correspondingly. And next day is not gonna be different. Same for weekends and holidays. All year, every year.
vasco 3y ago
Almost every person I know has the same goal about learning all these new hobbies. What happens instead is people do what they are passionate about and if you never learning X all your life you probably won't start at 65.
- herewulf 3y ago
  Depends on what X is. Ski jumping? Probably not. Workshop stuff (CNC, 3D printing, etc) probably yes.
  - vasco 3y ago
    It doesn't. Most people I know didn't have plans to ski jump when they are old because they know some physics and have been in the world more than 5 minutes.
  - badpun 3y ago
    If a person is doing at least a little bit of that in the small amounts of spare time they already have, then yes. Otherwise, I don't think so.

egwor 3y ago

I’ve been asking myself why I’m not already doing this now. Why not spend a bit of time on reading about it now?

Zircom 3y ago
I don't know about you but I'm mentally exhausted at the end of most days once I'm off work. It's relatively uncommon for me to even have energy to invest in my normal hobbies, let alone self-improvement/ learning new skills.
- computerdork 3y ago
  Agree with this. Am a software engineer and musician (composition). Exhausting to do both. But, have also found you can switch between them if you're a consultant. You work on medium-term length projects, build up a bank, quit, then focus on your other interest for a few months. Need to live frugally, but it is possible (have been doing this cycle for years).
  - herewulf 3y ago
    Very interesting! Any chance you have written more extensively about this somewhere? I am a consultant but it's hard to get my clients to leave me alone for more than a week.
    - computerdork 3y ago
      Haven't written on this, but can give you the important details of my form of consulting: 1) I tend to work at medium to large companies (Stubhub, Atlassian...) from anywhere from 7 months to 1.5 years. The reason being, as mentioned, that it's tough to do two things at the highest level at the same time. So I prefer to completely commit to one thing at a time - seems like for you, you have a lot of longterm clients that are constantly hitting you up for work. Guessing you're going to have to say no to new projects once you're ready to focus more on your interests. 2) So, when I'm working on a consulting job, it is my primary focus, and they get the best of me. And, I try to do at least 7 months of work, so that I do a substantial amount of work for them and they feel good about it - also, if you do too short a period, it will make it harder to get another job later on. 3) Although, it's important that while working at a consulting job, to keep up and improve your skills at whatever your outside interest is. Because if you don't, wow, you can really lose your skills and when your switch back to your interest, will need a ton of time to refreshing yourself. For me as a musician, this means would spend an hour a day practicing before work, specifically "sight-singing" as it is one of the most important skills for composition. In fact, would actually not just maintain the skill, but got a better at it over the course the consulting job. 4) When you have enough money and finish your consulting job, quit and switch back to your main interest. Will typically need to spend some time getting back up to speed. Sometimes this can take one month, other times (if you did a really long consulting job or you find a new skill you want to learn as is often the case for me) it can take a few months. 5) Now, fully focus on your main interest. You need to treat it just like regular work because it requires a ton of discipline, because it is so easy to get distracted and not do anything (I say this as I write this comment to you as a distraction from practicing:) For me, need a weekly work schedule (work mon - friday) and a daily routine to keep on track. 6) And just a suggestion about any outside interest. Work on smaller projects rather than trying to shoot for the moon. Because everything is takes a lot more work to do it at the highest level. Yeah, if I aim to create a music composition that I think will take a couple month, it often takes 3 or 4 times that, especially if I'm trying out a lot of stuff that I've never done before. I'd rather create something small that is really good than work on something large that I'll never finish. 7) And at least in my opinion, using this method, the quality of my compositions is quite high (at least to my standards) as they are my primary focus for months at a time. 8) Oh, and live cheaply. I used to live in SF, but moved way outside the city to save money (saved like 40% on rent, which went from $1350 to $700 - living with roommates in both situations). Hope this helps!
ngai_aku 3y ago
Probably because most of us have feelings similar to what was expressed by the parent: > It is very hard to have the energy to do a full day of work, come home, and do a full night of work. I really enjoyed school, and I always thought I’d be the type to continue education via MOOCs, self-guided study, what have you. But it’s hard to fit it in after a full day of work and family time!
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Same for me with learning new language (french) after long day at work... theoretically it should be fine and I know I should do it, but often the motivation is not there anymore at the end of the day, and you need some semi-constant momentum to get anywhere in these sustained efforts. And once you get kids, they are more effective than black holes with sucking out any time you could have for yourself. Its well spent time, don't get me wrong, most probably the best way to spend it for a parent, but personal efforts suffer correspondingly. And next day is not gonna be different. Same for weekends and holidays. All year, every year.

vasco 3y ago

Almost every person I know has the same goal about learning all these new hobbies. What happens instead is people do what they are passionate about and if you never learning X all your life you probably won't start at 65.

herewulf 3y ago
Depends on what X is. Ski jumping? Probably not. Workshop stuff (CNC, 3D printing, etc) probably yes.
- vasco 3y ago
  It doesn't. Most people I know didn't have plans to ski jump when they are old because they know some physics and have been in the world more than 5 minutes.
- badpun 3y ago
  If a person is doing at least a little bit of that in the small amounts of spare time they already have, then yes. Otherwise, I don't think so.