5 ms·

The people labeling data for $15/h are supposed to take the stand?

by photonbeam 3y ago

davb 3y ago
No, the people building the shite customer service chatbots that we all hate using should take a stand.
- fullshark 3y ago
  It would be great if everyone made personal financial sacrifices for the things we thought were important right? The world would be a much better place in my estimation.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Relying on individual developer's ethics is not going to work. "There's always someone willing to write the kill-bot software." I've in the past objected to (and refused to) develop ethically questionable software. It doesn't make a difference, because Bill, two desks down, is happy to write whatever software boss tells him to write.
- gremlinsinc 3y ago
  no the govt should just pay ubi because we're at the point of needing it. it'll only get worse. Businesses should automate so people are needed for less menial stuff and can just enjoy life and shit. Not far from now even intellectual jobs will be a.i. post scarcity star Trek civilization is very possible if we stop letting greed control us. disclaimer : I run an ai automation agency, and support the fight against poverty and for universal healthcare and stuff, but the faster we automate the faster the govt is forced to roll out solutions to fix the problems automation creates.
  - precompute 3y ago
    There will be a war, not UBI. UBI the way AI safety guys want it is never ever happening.
candiddevmike 3y ago
They could maliciously label stuff. I'd imagine there is a way to bias a model against wealthy people.
MarkMarine 3y ago
No one is talking about 15$ an hour data labeling and I’m pretty sure you know that. Being obtuse on purpose. If you’re actively replacing people’s jobs rather than helping people… well, you’ve got to look at yourself in the mirror every night.
- muskmusk 3y ago
  What if replacing people's jobs is helping people? Milk men, computers (the people kind), horse carriage chauffeurs, people who light lamp posts (when they were oil based) we could go on here. You are clearly coming from empathic place, but I am not sure your premise is nuanced enough. Lots of progress has "victims" but that doesn't necessarily make progress had.
  - the_only_law 3y ago
    So this comes up all the time on these threads. The key bit of information I’m missing is where did those milk men, carriage chauffeurs, lamp lighters, whatever go and how did they get there after they were rendered useless . Did they retrain for new careers? If so how did they afford the education/retraining necessary. How did they pay their rent/mortgage/etc. in the time in between it took them to do that? What are the new jobs that are going to be created after sweeping automation in service and knowledge industries? I can think of a few jobs that probably won’t see automation anytime soon, but a lot of them are crap, or would result in a major quality of life degradation. I remember years before ChatGPT reading a lot of speculation on automation and what potential careers could survive in the face of some AI or robotics revolution and the jobs people considered safe from automation were things like caregiver. Just a quick google search shows the pay range for that job near starting at minimum wage. Genuine question, I really don’t know. Personally I’d love to leave the software industry, but I don’t have any realistic alternative. Rent keeps getting more expensive, never less and the jobs that pay enough to keep up require expensive credentials that don’t only require a lot of money, but a lot of time as well. I probably should read up on the history of this sort of stuff, but I take a look at places like the rust belt and it seems like the next career for a lot of the people in blue collar work that was moved or automated was “opioid addict”. Personally if I lose everything and am forced out on the street because I’m obsolete, I don’t give a flying shit what kind of new jobs there are, because they’ll be inaccessible to me.

The people labeling data for $15/h are supposed to take the stand?

davb 3y ago

No, the people building the shite customer service chatbots that we all hate using should take a stand.

fullshark 3y ago
It would be great if everyone made personal financial sacrifices for the things we thought were important right? The world would be a much better place in my estimation.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Relying on individual developer's ethics is not going to work. "There's always someone willing to write the kill-bot software." I've in the past objected to (and refused to) develop ethically questionable software. It doesn't make a difference, because Bill, two desks down, is happy to write whatever software boss tells him to write.
gremlinsinc 3y ago
no the govt should just pay ubi because we're at the point of needing it. it'll only get worse. Businesses should automate so people are needed for less menial stuff and can just enjoy life and shit. Not far from now even intellectual jobs will be a.i. post scarcity star Trek civilization is very possible if we stop letting greed control us. disclaimer : I run an ai automation agency, and support the fight against poverty and for universal healthcare and stuff, but the faster we automate the faster the govt is forced to roll out solutions to fix the problems automation creates.
- precompute 3y ago
  There will be a war, not UBI. UBI the way AI safety guys want it is never ever happening.

candiddevmike 3y ago

They could maliciously label stuff. I'd imagine there is a way to bias a model against wealthy people.

MarkMarine 3y ago

No one is talking about 15$ an hour data labeling and I’m pretty sure you know that. Being obtuse on purpose. If you’re actively replacing people’s jobs rather than helping people… well, you’ve got to look at yourself in the mirror every night.

muskmusk 3y ago
What if replacing people's jobs is helping people? Milk men, computers (the people kind), horse carriage chauffeurs, people who light lamp posts (when they were oil based) we could go on here. You are clearly coming from empathic place, but I am not sure your premise is nuanced enough. Lots of progress has "victims" but that doesn't necessarily make progress had.
- the_only_law 3y ago
  So this comes up all the time on these threads. The key bit of information I’m missing is where did those milk men, carriage chauffeurs, lamp lighters, whatever go and how did they get there after they were rendered useless . Did they retrain for new careers? If so how did they afford the education/retraining necessary. How did they pay their rent/mortgage/etc. in the time in between it took them to do that? What are the new jobs that are going to be created after sweeping automation in service and knowledge industries? I can think of a few jobs that probably won’t see automation anytime soon, but a lot of them are crap, or would result in a major quality of life degradation. I remember years before ChatGPT reading a lot of speculation on automation and what potential careers could survive in the face of some AI or robotics revolution and the jobs people considered safe from automation were things like caregiver. Just a quick google search shows the pay range for that job near starting at minimum wage. Genuine question, I really don’t know. Personally I’d love to leave the software industry, but I don’t have any realistic alternative. Rent keeps getting more expensive, never less and the jobs that pay enough to keep up require expensive credentials that don’t only require a lot of money, but a lot of time as well. I probably should read up on the history of this sort of stuff, but I take a look at places like the rust belt and it seems like the next career for a lot of the people in blue collar work that was moved or automated was “opioid addict”. Personally if I lose everything and am forced out on the street because I’m obsolete, I don’t give a flying shit what kind of new jobs there are, because they’ll be inaccessible to me.