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Israel Quietly Embeds AI Systems in Deadly Military Operations

61 points by lormayna 3y ago

archo 3y ago
https://archive.is/iXcTw https://archive.is/iXcTw
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
0xDEF 3y ago
Turkish-made anti-personnel suicide drones that use AI to find and engage enemy personnel have already been used in Libya.
- therealdkz 3y ago
  „personnel”, really?
slt2021 3y ago
US military has been using AI for quite some time for ISR - scanning satellite data and detecting targets of interest, especially Navy. What will be new AI development - is "self-driving" anti-personnel/anti-materiel drones. Current capabilities are already pretty close to "self-driving" - for example HARM missiles that home in on AA radar. and the next frontier will be autonomous robots conducting combat missions automatically the sole reason why US protects Taiwan for its microchips is because they can be used in military AI. Not because iPhones or smart fridges will lose microchip supplier. At scale these chips will pave the way for autonomous smart combat platforms in any domain.
- ke88y 3y ago
  > the sole reason why... Strong disagree. 1. The USA's current stance toward Taiwan is largely a continuation of its historic stance, which had absolutely nothing to do with semiconductors. The USA currently maintains a strategic ambiguity wherein the USA sell arms and also remains capable of providing for Taiwan's defense, but provides no specific defense guarantee. That basic stance has been US policy since the 1970s, long before Taiwan became a semiconductor powerhouse. The Six Assurances were communicated to Taiwan about half a decade before the founding of TSMC. 2. TSMC and Taiwan are enormously important to the economy of the United States. The economic damage caused by loss of chip supply would be a major economic event, leading to simultaneous rapid goods inflation, massive equity draw-down, contraction in the real economy, etc. At least in the short term -- 1-2 years after invasion -- domestic unrest due to the economic damage would be far more disruptive to the USA's capability and willingness to go to war than chip supply in the defense industry (the DoD, through a combination of reserve supply and substitution, would be able to operate effectively for many years without new chip supplies). The military's need for TSMC-manufactured chips certainly provides a more hawkish hue to the USA's ambiguity, but it's far from the primary reason for USA's backing of Taiwan.
  - slt2021 3y ago
    two facts that may convince you that USA sees next-gen chips as a moat for military AI tech: 1. US blocked ASML from selling its EUV machines to China ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-05/us-pushing-for-asml-to-stop-selling-key-chipmaking-gear-to-china https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-05/us-pushin... ) 2. US called back all US citizens working in microchip industry in China: to either leave China and come back to the USA or lose citizenship ( https://www.outlookindia.com/international/explained-how-americans-in-chinese-tech-firms-might-have-to-choose-between-us-citizenship-and-job-news-230218 https://www.outlookindia.com/international/explained-how-ame... ) This is about maintaining long-term leader position in military technology of which AI is a big part
    - hker 3y ago
      > This is about maintaining long-term leader position in military technology of which AI is a big part. Yes, but this is part of the strategy to contain CCP while competing with it, deterring it from trying to take over Taiwan, preventing another Ukraine, which could be costly even if the war is won. The strategy to compete with CCP, instead of co-operating (as a factory of the World and a reliable trade partner), became mainstream since 2018 or so, when CCP show that it wanted to challenge the current world order (see the China 2049 Initiative by Xi).
    - PostOnce 3y ago
      "All" US citizens, no. Naturalized citizens, most of whom were born in China and naturalized on the basis that it would be good for America; so, if you're working on things that are contrary to American interests, you risk losing your recently-gained citizenship. The US couldn't revoke citizenship from someone who was born a citizen, for example.
      - zaphirplane 3y ago
        That means there are two classes of citizens and the law doesn’t really like to make that explicit and is horrible I think there is a western country that has a law effectively saying if a person has dual nationality and they commit a horrible crime, that person can be stripped of their citizenship which makes citizens equal
- halJordan 3y ago
  Was with you until you said sole reason. The dod sources chips from GloFo (nee ibm) and smaller players. Because GloFo is such a laggard Intel was onboarded/recruited/shanghai'd to provide cutting edge nodes. This was some years ago.

61 points by lormayna 3y ago

archo 3y ago

https://archive.is/iXcTw https://archive.is/iXcTw

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

0xDEF 3y ago

Turkish-made anti-personnel suicide drones that use AI to find and engage enemy personnel have already been used in Libya.

therealdkz 3y ago
„personnel”, really?

slt2021 3y ago

US military has been using AI for quite some time for ISR - scanning satellite data and detecting targets of interest, especially Navy. What will be new AI development - is "self-driving" anti-personnel/anti-materiel drones. Current capabilities are already pretty close to "self-driving" - for example HARM missiles that home in on AA radar. and the next frontier will be autonomous robots conducting combat missions automatically the sole reason why US protects Taiwan for its microchips is because they can be used in military AI. Not because iPhones or smart fridges will lose microchip supplier. At scale these chips will pave the way for autonomous smart combat platforms in any domain.

ke88y 3y ago
> the sole reason why... Strong disagree. 1. The USA's current stance toward Taiwan is largely a continuation of its historic stance, which had absolutely nothing to do with semiconductors. The USA currently maintains a strategic ambiguity wherein the USA sell arms and also remains capable of providing for Taiwan's defense, but provides no specific defense guarantee. That basic stance has been US policy since the 1970s, long before Taiwan became a semiconductor powerhouse. The Six Assurances were communicated to Taiwan about half a decade before the founding of TSMC. 2. TSMC and Taiwan are enormously important to the economy of the United States. The economic damage caused by loss of chip supply would be a major economic event, leading to simultaneous rapid goods inflation, massive equity draw-down, contraction in the real economy, etc. At least in the short term -- 1-2 years after invasion -- domestic unrest due to the economic damage would be far more disruptive to the USA's capability and willingness to go to war than chip supply in the defense industry (the DoD, through a combination of reserve supply and substitution, would be able to operate effectively for many years without new chip supplies). The military's need for TSMC-manufactured chips certainly provides a more hawkish hue to the USA's ambiguity, but it's far from the primary reason for USA's backing of Taiwan.
- slt2021 3y ago
  two facts that may convince you that USA sees next-gen chips as a moat for military AI tech: 1. US blocked ASML from selling its EUV machines to China ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-05/us-pushing-for-asml-to-stop-selling-key-chipmaking-gear-to-china https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-05/us-pushin... ) 2. US called back all US citizens working in microchip industry in China: to either leave China and come back to the USA or lose citizenship ( https://www.outlookindia.com/international/explained-how-americans-in-chinese-tech-firms-might-have-to-choose-between-us-citizenship-and-job-news-230218 https://www.outlookindia.com/international/explained-how-ame... ) This is about maintaining long-term leader position in military technology of which AI is a big part
  - hker 3y ago
    > This is about maintaining long-term leader position in military technology of which AI is a big part. Yes, but this is part of the strategy to contain CCP while competing with it, deterring it from trying to take over Taiwan, preventing another Ukraine, which could be costly even if the war is won. The strategy to compete with CCP, instead of co-operating (as a factory of the World and a reliable trade partner), became mainstream since 2018 or so, when CCP show that it wanted to challenge the current world order (see the China 2049 Initiative by Xi).
  - PostOnce 3y ago
    "All" US citizens, no. Naturalized citizens, most of whom were born in China and naturalized on the basis that it would be good for America; so, if you're working on things that are contrary to American interests, you risk losing your recently-gained citizenship. The US couldn't revoke citizenship from someone who was born a citizen, for example.
    - zaphirplane 3y ago
      That means there are two classes of citizens and the law doesn’t really like to make that explicit and is horrible I think there is a western country that has a law effectively saying if a person has dual nationality and they commit a horrible crime, that person can be stripped of their citizenship which makes citizens equal
halJordan 3y ago
Was with you until you said sole reason. The dod sources chips from GloFo (nee ibm) and smaller players. Because GloFo is such a laggard Intel was onboarded/recruited/shanghai'd to provide cutting edge nodes. This was some years ago.