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Is it such a bad thing to dream of a life which values things outside of a workplace? To spend time with friends and family. The older generations cling to posi

Is it such a bad thing to dream of a life which values things outside of a workplace? To spend time with friends and family. The older generations cling to positions of power and refuse to make room for the newer generations, so it is upon them to find meaning and purpose through other avenues. Retiring seems important for allowing younger generations to take their place. But if all you have is your work and you've lived for nothing more then I guess it makes sense to cling onto it until the end.

spaceman_2020 3y ago
Its not a value judgement on my peer group for wanting out of the workplace. Its more of a value judgement on the meaningless of so much of modern work. All the people I mentioned above are involved in work that’s probably more gratifying than making giant corporations richer. One is a playwright, one is a professor, one is a top pulmonologist in the country. I don’t know what their day to day entails, but I can’t imagine it being as mind numbing as what I do.
- JamesAdir 3y ago
  This. My friends' father is approaching 92. He worked in his auto repair shop until the age of 89. He was a pillar of the community, known everyone and their cars, and had generations of customer coming with cars to get them serviced. I don't think he became a rich man from this. He had a house, raised his family, and that's all. He just enjoyed fixing cars.
  - Given_47 3y ago
    Yea I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. I think us fixating so much on monetary richness can b harmful to society and too little is made of general “wealth” (drawing some inspiration from pg’s how to make wealth). There’s a lot of folks that make more than ur buddy’s dad, but I’m sure a lot of them are miserable in their jobs. In standard jobs u spend the majority of ur non sleeping hours in ur job. Are you rlly more “rich” if u can splurge on a few things on occasion but everything else is a chore compared to someone with an adequate amount to get by but enjoys the work? Idk I find framing it this way and thinking about the dichotomy between short bursts of gratification and more subdued but consistent well being is interesting
RangerScience 3y ago
There’s a big difference between having a purpose in your life, something you love doing, that happens to be done at a work place; and being an employee. IMHO it is absolutely a good thing to dream of a life which values things outside of employment. We just happen to use the same word - “work” - for both kinds of situations.
- RangerScience 3y ago
  Related - My friend group is a bunch of (predictably) nerds, and describing the times I want to keep working on an interesting tech problem for my employer as "wizarding" has been fairly successful. It's specifically a D&D reference, since what I'm usually doing is figuring out a new pattern ("spell") to add to my repertoire ("spellbook") that I can then use in many other situations. It's... difficult, to convey to people what it's like having a job you like doing, working for people that treat you with respect, when they've pretty much only ever had jobs they didn't like and working for people that treated them poorly.
  - Given_47 3y ago
    Yea it’s pretty disheartening that these r common experiences. Admittedly, I don’t kno a ton about UBI but I’d imagine the idea of giving people more security so they can pursue their interests in careers and not have to suffer thru a daily grind solely for a paycheck is a tenet of it
    - RangerScience 3y ago
      100% yes. I usually think of / describe that aspect of UBI (theoretically) as "the job all other jobs have to compete with." Like - there's a floor on how shitty a job can be, if no job is a valid alternative.
      - Given_47 3y ago
        I like that framing, thanks. And thinking about that vision, I think people all too often conflate being a cog in a corporate machine with being “a contributing member of society.” Not discrediting the notion of everyone pulling their weight in a community, but the frequency that I encounter that take in the mainstream always irks me
moonchrome 3y ago
> Is it such a bad thing to dream of a life which values things outside of a workplace? To spend time with friends and family. Friends and family are great reprieve between working hours and obligations. I wouldn't want that to be the only thing going on. Stay at home moms and retired people around me are not the image of fulfilment. The few retired people I've met that were happy and engaging are the kind that didn't stop working past retirement.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  It doesn't have to be work, but instead of word hobby I would use word passion. For me its various sports and activities mostly in the mountains and backpacking around the world. This keeps me sane and cca happy. My father worked an extra year so he could buy his lifelong dream - Harley Davidson. Few years later, he is still very much into it, found new friends and community he enjoys being part of, going out on various adventures. Hobby for me is something I like doing sometimes. Passion is something that defines at least part of me, think about it a lot in my free time, train for it etc. If you have proper passion(s), retirement means just more time for them. Like say rock climbing. The idea of having free time to finally travel around the world in slow pace, or climb rock whenever I want sounds like paradise.
themitigating 3y ago
If someone talks about how they love to work and don't want to retire it's not a judgement on any other choices.

spaceman_2020 3y ago

Its not a value judgement on my peer group for wanting out of the workplace. Its more of a value judgement on the meaningless of so much of modern work. All the people I mentioned above are involved in work that’s probably more gratifying than making giant corporations richer. One is a playwright, one is a professor, one is a top pulmonologist in the country. I don’t know what their day to day entails, but I can’t imagine it being as mind numbing as what I do.

JamesAdir 3y ago
This. My friends' father is approaching 92. He worked in his auto repair shop until the age of 89. He was a pillar of the community, known everyone and their cars, and had generations of customer coming with cars to get them serviced. I don't think he became a rich man from this. He had a house, raised his family, and that's all. He just enjoyed fixing cars.
- Given_47 3y ago
  Yea I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. I think us fixating so much on monetary richness can b harmful to society and too little is made of general “wealth” (drawing some inspiration from pg’s how to make wealth). There’s a lot of folks that make more than ur buddy’s dad, but I’m sure a lot of them are miserable in their jobs. In standard jobs u spend the majority of ur non sleeping hours in ur job. Are you rlly more “rich” if u can splurge on a few things on occasion but everything else is a chore compared to someone with an adequate amount to get by but enjoys the work? Idk I find framing it this way and thinking about the dichotomy between short bursts of gratification and more subdued but consistent well being is interesting

RangerScience 3y ago

There’s a big difference between having a purpose in your life, something you love doing, that happens to be done at a work place; and being an employee. IMHO it is absolutely a good thing to dream of a life which values things outside of employment. We just happen to use the same word - “work” - for both kinds of situations.

RangerScience 3y ago
Related - My friend group is a bunch of (predictably) nerds, and describing the times I want to keep working on an interesting tech problem for my employer as "wizarding" has been fairly successful. It's specifically a D&D reference, since what I'm usually doing is figuring out a new pattern ("spell") to add to my repertoire ("spellbook") that I can then use in many other situations. It's... difficult, to convey to people what it's like having a job you like doing, working for people that treat you with respect, when they've pretty much only ever had jobs they didn't like and working for people that treated them poorly.
- Given_47 3y ago
  Yea it’s pretty disheartening that these r common experiences. Admittedly, I don’t kno a ton about UBI but I’d imagine the idea of giving people more security so they can pursue their interests in careers and not have to suffer thru a daily grind solely for a paycheck is a tenet of it
  - RangerScience 3y ago
    100% yes. I usually think of / describe that aspect of UBI (theoretically) as "the job all other jobs have to compete with." Like - there's a floor on how shitty a job can be, if no job is a valid alternative.
    - Given_47 3y ago
      I like that framing, thanks. And thinking about that vision, I think people all too often conflate being a cog in a corporate machine with being “a contributing member of society.” Not discrediting the notion of everyone pulling their weight in a community, but the frequency that I encounter that take in the mainstream always irks me

moonchrome 3y ago

> Is it such a bad thing to dream of a life which values things outside of a workplace? To spend time with friends and family. Friends and family are great reprieve between working hours and obligations. I wouldn't want that to be the only thing going on. Stay at home moms and retired people around me are not the image of fulfilment. The few retired people I've met that were happy and engaging are the kind that didn't stop working past retirement.

saiya-jin 3y ago
It doesn't have to be work, but instead of word hobby I would use word passion. For me its various sports and activities mostly in the mountains and backpacking around the world. This keeps me sane and cca happy. My father worked an extra year so he could buy his lifelong dream - Harley Davidson. Few years later, he is still very much into it, found new friends and community he enjoys being part of, going out on various adventures. Hobby for me is something I like doing sometimes. Passion is something that defines at least part of me, think about it a lot in my free time, train for it etc. If you have proper passion(s), retirement means just more time for them. Like say rock climbing. The idea of having free time to finally travel around the world in slow pace, or climb rock whenever I want sounds like paradise.

themitigating 3y ago

If someone talks about how they love to work and don't want to retire it's not a judgement on any other choices.