5 ms·

Did you at least read the article before taking a side? The author is a historian who happens to have spent quite a bit of time researching this and makes a ver

Did you at least read the article before taking a side? The author is a historian who happens to have spent quite a bit of time researching this and makes a very compelling argument.

edgyquant 3y ago
The author can’t refute the two instances I gave so not sure it matters.
riku_iki 3y ago
always disappointing when people switch topic to titles when they can't bring counter-argument.
woooooo 3y ago
Does anyone bother to write that the gauls were losers? Vercingetorix got owned! The Spartans get way too much hype but they also had a fairly respectable run for a while. They beat Persia and then Athens. Were the athenians even bigger losers?
- kybernetikos 3y ago
  > They beat Persia and then Athens I hope you're not counting Thermopylae as them 'beating Persia'. Thermopylae was a disastrous defeat. Marathon and Salamis seem to be more important than Thermopylae (and are victories), and those were led by Athens as far as I can make out. You may be referring to Plataea, which was led by Sparta, but included forces from the whole Greek alliance, including nearly as many troops from Athens as Sparta. As to them beating Athens, that was only after taking an enormous amount of Persian money to do so, and would most likely have been impossible otherwise.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    they had help from allies, but they still won those wars and not lost.
    - kybernetikos 3y ago
      That's fine, as long as you also agree that Athens 'beat Persia'.
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        i am not expert, but my reading of wiki is that there were two wars: - first invasion where persian were defeated by athens, and sparta was not involved much because persian didn't come to sparta close - second, much larger invasion, where persians again attacked athens first, essentially defeated athens (athenians left the city), then athenians asked sparta to join the war or otherwise they will surrender to persians. Sparta assembled army, and defeated persians in the battle of plataea. It looks like spartans defeated persians, and athenians would surrender if no sparta's involvement
        kybernetikos 3y ago
        they had help from allies, but they still won those wars and not lost.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
vasco 3y ago
Every empire that ever was and is no more are also losers then I guess. I guess all the native populations that got owned by invading armies and more advanced technology coming from Europe in the Discoveries were losers too. This whole loser thing is funny until it's about someone you identify with, so better not even start it.

Did you at least read the article before taking a side? The author is a historian who happens to have spent quite a bit of time researching this and makes a very compelling argument.

edgyquant 3y ago

The author can’t refute the two instances I gave so not sure it matters.

riku_iki 3y ago

always disappointing when people switch topic to titles when they can't bring counter-argument.

woooooo 3y ago

Does anyone bother to write that the gauls were losers? Vercingetorix got owned! The Spartans get way too much hype but they also had a fairly respectable run for a while. They beat Persia and then Athens. Were the athenians even bigger losers?

kybernetikos 3y ago
> They beat Persia and then Athens I hope you're not counting Thermopylae as them 'beating Persia'. Thermopylae was a disastrous defeat. Marathon and Salamis seem to be more important than Thermopylae (and are victories), and those were led by Athens as far as I can make out. You may be referring to Plataea, which was led by Sparta, but included forces from the whole Greek alliance, including nearly as many troops from Athens as Sparta. As to them beating Athens, that was only after taking an enormous amount of Persian money to do so, and would most likely have been impossible otherwise.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  they had help from allies, but they still won those wars and not lost.
  - kybernetikos 3y ago
    That's fine, as long as you also agree that Athens 'beat Persia'.
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      i am not expert, but my reading of wiki is that there were two wars: - first invasion where persian were defeated by athens, and sparta was not involved much because persian didn't come to sparta close - second, much larger invasion, where persians again attacked athens first, essentially defeated athens (athenians left the city), then athenians asked sparta to join the war or otherwise they will surrender to persians. Sparta assembled army, and defeated persians in the battle of plataea. It looks like spartans defeated persians, and athenians would surrender if no sparta's involvement
      - kybernetikos 3y ago
        they had help from allies, but they still won those wars and not lost.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

vasco 3y ago

Every empire that ever was and is no more are also losers then I guess. I guess all the native populations that got owned by invading armies and more advanced technology coming from Europe in the Discoveries were losers too. This whole loser thing is funny until it's about someone you identify with, so better not even start it.