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First, I reject the notion that there are "massive, growing hordes of drug addicted zombies in west coast cities." Having lived in Seattle for over a decade, no

First, I reject the notion that there are "massive, growing hordes of drug addicted zombies in west coast cities." Having lived in Seattle for over a decade, now living in Olympia, and having visited San Franscisco, Portland, and other west coast cities plenty of times, what you're describing doesn't line up with my experience at all. If you drop the hyperbole perhaps we agree, but then why hyperventilate? It undermines your point. Second, assuming you're genuinely curious and not simply trying to spread misinformation my answer would be to greatly reduce inequality. In my corner of the world housing has exploded in price. Healthcare is also very expensive. I don't see "hordes of drug addicts" I see Hoovervilles. For some reason we're not moved to help the destitute like we once were. Perhaps it's because we view them as "drug addicted zombies." So much for "love thy neighbor."

remarkEon 3y ago
I’ve lived in various west coast cities since 2011 and while a “horde of drug addicted zombies” roaming the streets is not literally true (like out of a zombie apocalypse film or something), you can’t deny that there is a significant problem in certain areas of these cities. In the same way that hyperbolizing the descriptor undermines the point, imagining that it isn’t a problem and just something you deal with is the other side of the same coin. >… my answer would be to greatly reduce inequality We’ve been screaming the same tune for over a decade at this point. Equality is a problem but it’s a parallel issue. Doing the same policies, but louder, is not a good faith proposal because it’s just repetition of what doesn’t work. Many, and indeed I would posit most, do not want your or my help to live as a “contributing member of society”. Some are so far gone they’re not in the position to even make a choice.
- aschearer 3y ago
  I didn't deny that homelessness is a problem, please re-read my comment. Perhaps I've been "screaming the tune" for a decade but in that time the cost of housing has gone up dramatically. In 2009 I rented a 2-br apartment in Capitol Hill for $1,600 -- parking included. In 2019 I rented a studio apartment in the same neighborhood for the same -- parking not included. I can produce examples like this all day. My point is, we haven't successfully tackled the problem of inequality and affordability. In my opinion, we must tackle the root problem if we hope to resolve the issue long term. We can do that _and_ address the symptoms in parallel. However if I had to bet, my money is on housing continuing it's inexorable rise over the next decade, pushing further people into destitution. I've tried to respond in "good faith." Your turn.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    Homelessness is a huge problem that needs additional resources. Most of it isn't really visible. And then there's the huge sub-problem of people who are chronically homeless, drug-addicted, and visible. Large efforts at simply improving access to housing are likely to make a large dent in the larger homelessness problem, but may not be effective in addressing people with long-standing drug addiction and behavioral disorders. Many/most have behaviors that are incompatible with conventional housing. The solution for this subgroup is going to be a lot more complicated.
    - aschearer 3y ago
      Replying so you don't feel left out -- I hadn't because I don't feel there's much left to add. I agree with you. There is more than one piece to the puzzle. We seem to agree that housing is one of the bigger pieces, though. So let's start there and make some progress for a change. Let's not throw our hands up, like some in this thread, and say we've exhausted this approach and it's time for the stick. For the rest, we'll have to go case-by-case. For the most recalcitrant, anti-social cases we may need the stick in the end. Hopefully by that point we can say the system isn't pathological. Regardless, I suspect the cases on that end of the spectrum will be less "homeless" and more "criminal."
  - remarkEon 3y ago
    We’re clearly not talking about the same problem. There isn’t a direct line from you not being able to find the same square footage for $1600 in 2019 as you did in 2009, and you winding up as a hopeless drug addict in Cal Anderson. I’m all for draconian policies to address rising housing costs (such a extreme excise taxes on vacant units, of which there are a lot in Seattle and Portland), but that doesn’t have anything to do with tent cities in the Puget Sound area. If Capital Hill suddenly had the same inventory of 2 bedroom units with parking at $1600 a month that it did in 2009, the broader problems do not go away. These people we’re talking about will all be dead by the time any of yours or my pet ideas to increase housing supply come to fruition. And yet, in the here and now, there’s a continuing escalation of health and safety issues that, again, don’t go away if rents suddenly drop.

remarkEon 3y ago

I’ve lived in various west coast cities since 2011 and while a “horde of drug addicted zombies” roaming the streets is not literally true (like out of a zombie apocalypse film or something), you can’t deny that there is a significant problem in certain areas of these cities. In the same way that hyperbolizing the descriptor undermines the point, imagining that it isn’t a problem and just something you deal with is the other side of the same coin. >… my answer would be to greatly reduce inequality We’ve been screaming the same tune for over a decade at this point. Equality is a problem but it’s a parallel issue. Doing the same policies, but louder, is not a good faith proposal because it’s just repetition of what doesn’t work. Many, and indeed I would posit most, do not want your or my help to live as a “contributing member of society”. Some are so far gone they’re not in the position to even make a choice.

aschearer 3y ago
I didn't deny that homelessness is a problem, please re-read my comment. Perhaps I've been "screaming the tune" for a decade but in that time the cost of housing has gone up dramatically. In 2009 I rented a 2-br apartment in Capitol Hill for $1,600 -- parking included. In 2019 I rented a studio apartment in the same neighborhood for the same -- parking not included. I can produce examples like this all day. My point is, we haven't successfully tackled the problem of inequality and affordability. In my opinion, we must tackle the root problem if we hope to resolve the issue long term. We can do that _and_ address the symptoms in parallel. However if I had to bet, my money is on housing continuing it's inexorable rise over the next decade, pushing further people into destitution. I've tried to respond in "good faith." Your turn.
- mlyle 3y ago
  Homelessness is a huge problem that needs additional resources. Most of it isn't really visible. And then there's the huge sub-problem of people who are chronically homeless, drug-addicted, and visible. Large efforts at simply improving access to housing are likely to make a large dent in the larger homelessness problem, but may not be effective in addressing people with long-standing drug addiction and behavioral disorders. Many/most have behaviors that are incompatible with conventional housing. The solution for this subgroup is going to be a lot more complicated.
  - aschearer 3y ago
    Replying so you don't feel left out -- I hadn't because I don't feel there's much left to add. I agree with you. There is more than one piece to the puzzle. We seem to agree that housing is one of the bigger pieces, though. So let's start there and make some progress for a change. Let's not throw our hands up, like some in this thread, and say we've exhausted this approach and it's time for the stick. For the rest, we'll have to go case-by-case. For the most recalcitrant, anti-social cases we may need the stick in the end. Hopefully by that point we can say the system isn't pathological. Regardless, I suspect the cases on that end of the spectrum will be less "homeless" and more "criminal."
- remarkEon 3y ago
  We’re clearly not talking about the same problem. There isn’t a direct line from you not being able to find the same square footage for $1600 in 2019 as you did in 2009, and you winding up as a hopeless drug addict in Cal Anderson. I’m all for draconian policies to address rising housing costs (such a extreme excise taxes on vacant units, of which there are a lot in Seattle and Portland), but that doesn’t have anything to do with tent cities in the Puget Sound area. If Capital Hill suddenly had the same inventory of 2 bedroom units with parking at $1600 a month that it did in 2009, the broader problems do not go away. These people we’re talking about will all be dead by the time any of yours or my pet ideas to increase housing supply come to fruition. And yet, in the here and now, there’s a continuing escalation of health and safety issues that, again, don’t go away if rents suddenly drop.