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> What do you propose, NATO escorting ships bound for Odessa and getting in an open armed conflict with Russia so that South Africa and other friends of Russia,

> What do you propose, NATO escorting ships bound for Odessa and getting in an open armed conflict with Russia so that South Africa and other friends of Russia, avoid food shortages? Yes. Fuck around and find out. Russia does not have the military capability to fight another war. They'd be complete idiots to attack a western warship. They would simply lose. You don't need to declare war to destroy a ship attacking yours. Russia's threats are as idle as their constant nuclear threats.

deleted 3y ago
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petre 3y ago
Not happening. Warships are currently barred by Türkye from entering the Black Sea through the Bosphorus, unless returning to base. The only NATO warships that could escort civillian ships bound for Odessa are Turkish, Bulgarian or Romanian. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/02/turkey-closes-the-dardanelles-and-bosphorus-to-warships/ https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/02/turkey-closes-t... What might be happening is arming Ukraine with ground launched anti ship missile systems: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/06/polish-coastal-defence-system-with-nsm-missiles-for-ukraine/ https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/06/polish-coastal-... The Biden administration, along with the rest of NATO does not want to escalate and engage in a war with Russia. Not over Ukraine, not over the food security of Putin or Xi's partners. Egypt, Nigeria or South Africa not getting their grain only puts further pressure on the Kremlin to end this war. Declarations of war have been exceedingly uncommon since the end of World War II.
- spywaregorilla 3y ago
  > Not happening. Warships are currently barred by Türkye from entering the Black Sea through the Bosphorus, unless returning to base. The only NATO warships that could escort civillian ships bound for Odessa are Turkish, Bulgarian or Romanian. Not true. Your own link states as much "the Turkish government appears to have exercised its rights under Article 21, which states that passage of warships should be wholly at the discretion of the Turkish Government when it feels itself to be threatened with imminent danger of war." At least in the sense that the US could publicly request to do this and Turkey would need to respond. > The Biden administration, along with the rest of NATO does not want to escalate and engage in a war with Russia. Not over Ukraine, not over the food security of Putin or Xi's partners. Egypt, Nigeria or South Africa not getting their grain only puts further pressure on the Kremlin to end this war. Agreed. Escorting grain ships is not a declaration of war. Nor is returning fire. Note, these countries not getting grain raises food prices for everyone. This is problematic for most countries. Not Russia as Russia is food secure.

deleted 3y ago

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petre 3y ago

Not happening. Warships are currently barred by Türkye from entering the Black Sea through the Bosphorus, unless returning to base. The only NATO warships that could escort civillian ships bound for Odessa are Turkish, Bulgarian or Romanian. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/02/turkey-closes-the-dardanelles-and-bosphorus-to-warships/ https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/02/turkey-closes-t... What might be happening is arming Ukraine with ground launched anti ship missile systems: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/06/polish-coastal-defence-system-with-nsm-missiles-for-ukraine/ https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/06/polish-coastal-... The Biden administration, along with the rest of NATO does not want to escalate and engage in a war with Russia. Not over Ukraine, not over the food security of Putin or Xi's partners. Egypt, Nigeria or South Africa not getting their grain only puts further pressure on the Kremlin to end this war. Declarations of war have been exceedingly uncommon since the end of World War II.

spywaregorilla 3y ago
> Not happening. Warships are currently barred by Türkye from entering the Black Sea through the Bosphorus, unless returning to base. The only NATO warships that could escort civillian ships bound for Odessa are Turkish, Bulgarian or Romanian. Not true. Your own link states as much "the Turkish government appears to have exercised its rights under Article 21, which states that passage of warships should be wholly at the discretion of the Turkish Government when it feels itself to be threatened with imminent danger of war." At least in the sense that the US could publicly request to do this and Turkey would need to respond. > The Biden administration, along with the rest of NATO does not want to escalate and engage in a war with Russia. Not over Ukraine, not over the food security of Putin or Xi's partners. Egypt, Nigeria or South Africa not getting their grain only puts further pressure on the Kremlin to end this war. Agreed. Escorting grain ships is not a declaration of war. Nor is returning fire. Note, these countries not getting grain raises food prices for everyone. This is problematic for most countries. Not Russia as Russia is food secure.