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My first job working for minimum wage in a theater, I was invited to go to IHOP or someplace like that after we closed. I asked what they talked about and the a

My first job working for minimum wage in a theater, I was invited to go to IHOP or someplace like that after we closed. I asked what they talked about and the answer I got was, "mostly work politics", so I suppose that was a good early lesson for 15 year old me that basically wherever you get two people together, you will get politics. My suspicion for the reason that academia is seen as being so political is because they're actually not very good at it. The top of the heap of political practitioners in my experience tend to be the VP+ level leadership in publicly traded companies.

hnfong 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law > Sayre's law states, in a formulation quoted by Charles Philip Issawi: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." By way of corollary, it adds: "That is why academic politics are so bitter."
- NegativeK 3y ago
  Somewhat related: https://shed.bike/ https://shed.bike/
Agingcoder 3y ago
I think academia is political because it’s a very small world, and chronically underfunded, so people fight. If there were loads of open positions, with unlimited research budgets, and decent salaries, I hope they wouldn’t fight and there would be no politics. But I might be wrong on that one :-) I work on a daily basis with Vp+ level leadership of a publicly traded company and yes, they’re much better at it. But there’s just as much politics as in academia : people fight for power, money, prestige which are increasingly concentrated as you go up.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  Is academia actually underfunded, or does is just create a large, underpaid labor class it can motivate with a tenure carrot? I don't get a sense that there's actually that much more research that needs to be done as much as we need a lot of TAs and lecturers.
  - eli_gottlieb 3y ago
    Personally I'm more under the impression that there's a lot of research that needs to be done, but parts of the system other than just funding make it hard to do it. "More funding" would be a necessary part of a solution, but would only work when coupled to other necessary measures to encourage genuinely productive science.
DropInIn 3y ago
Let's think about the life path of academia: K-12, Post Secondary, Teaching... Maybe a vacation or two in there... They've never truly existed outside the school system, and in many ways never grew out of it. In many ways, academics stay kids thier entire lives. When you look at school children's behavio and the politics of high school, it all makes sense that academia is highly "political" in the most childish manner.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  Is the life path of a developer (particularly one interested in working for one of the large, monopolist tech firms) really so different? Isn't "staff" engineer a common goal? As I say, my experience has been that hard skills matter quite little beyond a certain point and political/soft skills take over, and it's as true of private industry as anywhere else.
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    Working _outside_ of the educational systems vs _Never_Leaving_ the educational system? Yea... that's apples and oranges in many respects.
rahimnathwani 3y ago
"You turn it into some Dynasty s**t, like: ”She’s trying to destroy me!” What the f**k are you talking about? You wrap up bags at J.C. Penney’s! What’s she doing, ripping up your paper?" - Chris Rock
saghm 3y ago
> I was invited to go to IHOP or someplace like that after we closed. I asked what they talked about and the answer I got was, "mostly work politics" Honestly, I'm surprised at the candor! Were the other employees also teenagers, or were you told this by an adult? I'd somewhat expect that somewhere with such a strong "workplace politics" culture would have been more worried that you'd be a competitor, but I could see an adult being more candid with someone much younger due to not perceiving them as a "threat".

hnfong 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law > Sayre's law states, in a formulation quoted by Charles Philip Issawi: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." By way of corollary, it adds: "That is why academic politics are so bitter."

NegativeK 3y ago
Somewhat related: https://shed.bike/ https://shed.bike/

Agingcoder 3y ago

I think academia is political because it’s a very small world, and chronically underfunded, so people fight. If there were loads of open positions, with unlimited research budgets, and decent salaries, I hope they wouldn’t fight and there would be no politics. But I might be wrong on that one :-) I work on a daily basis with Vp+ level leadership of a publicly traded company and yes, they’re much better at it. But there’s just as much politics as in academia : people fight for power, money, prestige which are increasingly concentrated as you go up.

dehrmann 3y ago
Is academia actually underfunded, or does is just create a large, underpaid labor class it can motivate with a tenure carrot? I don't get a sense that there's actually that much more research that needs to be done as much as we need a lot of TAs and lecturers.
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  Personally I'm more under the impression that there's a lot of research that needs to be done, but parts of the system other than just funding make it hard to do it. "More funding" would be a necessary part of a solution, but would only work when coupled to other necessary measures to encourage genuinely productive science.

DropInIn 3y ago

Let's think about the life path of academia: K-12, Post Secondary, Teaching... Maybe a vacation or two in there... They've never truly existed outside the school system, and in many ways never grew out of it. In many ways, academics stay kids thier entire lives. When you look at school children's behavio and the politics of high school, it all makes sense that academia is highly "political" in the most childish manner.

hotpotamus 3y ago
Is the life path of a developer (particularly one interested in working for one of the large, monopolist tech firms) really so different? Isn't "staff" engineer a common goal? As I say, my experience has been that hard skills matter quite little beyond a certain point and political/soft skills take over, and it's as true of private industry as anywhere else.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  Working _outside_ of the educational systems vs _Never_Leaving_ the educational system? Yea... that's apples and oranges in many respects.

rahimnathwani 3y ago

"You turn it into some Dynasty s**t, like: ”She’s trying to destroy me!” What the f**k are you talking about? You wrap up bags at J.C. Penney’s! What’s she doing, ripping up your paper?" - Chris Rock

saghm 3y ago

> I was invited to go to IHOP or someplace like that after we closed. I asked what they talked about and the answer I got was, "mostly work politics" Honestly, I'm surprised at the candor! Were the other employees also teenagers, or were you told this by an adult? I'd somewhat expect that somewhere with such a strong "workplace politics" culture would have been more worried that you'd be a competitor, but I could see an adult being more candid with someone much younger due to not perceiving them as a "threat".