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First politicians make unrealistically high pensions to gain votes and then they find out that economy cannot sustain paying them. What a surprise. And now poor

First politicians make unrealistically high pensions to gain votes and then they find out that economy cannot sustain paying them. What a surprise. And now poor 62-year old Frenchmen have to work hard to pay for those politicians' mistakes. Also, I wonder, if the law is such controversial, why not hold a referendum? Why not let people decide for themselves, whether they want to raise the pension age or lower the pension to more realistic figures? I think that would be the most democratic way to resolve the issue instead of beating people by police.

sofixa 3y ago
> First politicians make unrealistically high pensions to gain votes and then they find out that economy cannot sustain paying them. What a surprise It took multiple decades for it to become unsustainable thanks to increasing life durations. > Also, I wonder, if the law is such controversial, why not hold a referendum Because fundamentally, if you ask people if they want to work 2 more years, very few will say yes. This is an unpopular decision, like carbon cutting measures, that is needed at the higher level, but few will choose to make the sacrifice.
- codedokode 3y ago
  > Because fundamentally, if you ask people if they want to work 2 more years, very few will say yes What's the point of democracy if you don't let people decide anything? (also what's the point of having a Parliament that doesn't decide anything). If people don't want to work, then lower the pensions to realistic figures.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    > If people don't want to work, then lower the pensions to realistic figures. People don't want that too, of course. > also what's the point of having a Parliament that doesn't decide anything Parliament decides most things, it's just that there is the option to force stuff through them in limited types of scenarios and a limited amount of times (which they can refuse with a motion of no confidence). So it's not like the President can just rule by decree and do whatever they want. > What's the point of democracy if you don't let people decide anything? What can I say, democracy has it's flaws. People are easily attracted to empty populists that promise stuff that doesn't make sense, or would be downright catastrophic; politicians are incentivised to think short term (next election cycle) instead of medium and long term (nobody got reelected because they gave money to a nuclear research programme that is scheduled to finish in 30 years time). Having politicians with the guts to make reforms that are needed, even if unpopular, is crucial for the long term health of a country. Sadly it's quite hard to have that without spiralling into authoritarianism, and downright impossible to differentiate between that and a politician doing things for their own (friends/business partners) benefit - e.g. did Macron force this reform through because, as he says, he believes it's necessary to avoid French debts spiralling out of control, or because it will push more people into private retirement schemes and he's getting a cutback from that?

sofixa 3y ago

> First politicians make unrealistically high pensions to gain votes and then they find out that economy cannot sustain paying them. What a surprise It took multiple decades for it to become unsustainable thanks to increasing life durations. > Also, I wonder, if the law is such controversial, why not hold a referendum Because fundamentally, if you ask people if they want to work 2 more years, very few will say yes. This is an unpopular decision, like carbon cutting measures, that is needed at the higher level, but few will choose to make the sacrifice.

codedokode 3y ago
> Because fundamentally, if you ask people if they want to work 2 more years, very few will say yes What's the point of democracy if you don't let people decide anything? (also what's the point of having a Parliament that doesn't decide anything). If people don't want to work, then lower the pensions to realistic figures.
- sofixa 3y ago
  > If people don't want to work, then lower the pensions to realistic figures. People don't want that too, of course. > also what's the point of having a Parliament that doesn't decide anything Parliament decides most things, it's just that there is the option to force stuff through them in limited types of scenarios and a limited amount of times (which they can refuse with a motion of no confidence). So it's not like the President can just rule by decree and do whatever they want. > What's the point of democracy if you don't let people decide anything? What can I say, democracy has it's flaws. People are easily attracted to empty populists that promise stuff that doesn't make sense, or would be downright catastrophic; politicians are incentivised to think short term (next election cycle) instead of medium and long term (nobody got reelected because they gave money to a nuclear research programme that is scheduled to finish in 30 years time). Having politicians with the guts to make reforms that are needed, even if unpopular, is crucial for the long term health of a country. Sadly it's quite hard to have that without spiralling into authoritarianism, and downright impossible to differentiate between that and a politician doing things for their own (friends/business partners) benefit - e.g. did Macron force this reform through because, as he says, he believes it's necessary to avoid French debts spiralling out of control, or because it will push more people into private retirement schemes and he's getting a cutback from that?