3 ms·

Curious, where does rent cost much less than mortgage payments in the SF Bay Area?

refurb 3y ago
San Francisco. A house that costs $8,000 per month in rent might cost $2M to buy. At $2M that's $9,500 in mortgage payment at 6% for 30 years, about $2,800 in property taxes, another $300 in insurance, and maybe assume $500 per month maintenance (over the long haul). That's ~$13,000 per month when rent is $8,000. You can knock the $1,500 per month off the mortgage payment that is paying off principle, but you'd also need to account for the opportunity cost of a $400,000 down payment at some modest return of say 4% which is ~$1,300, so it's about breakeven. The you need to account for transactions costs - all the closing fees and the 5-6% realtor fee when you sell. All in, if you rent in SF, but invest the savings from owning, you're not really far behind someone who buys, but of course it all depends on price appreciation and over what time period. That's not to say you can't get lucky and buy right before some massive price appreciation then sell and lock in the gains. But unless you have a crystal ball, you can't time that sort of stuff.
- rottencupcakes 3y ago
  Thanks so much for clarifying. I hadn't adjusted my mental models for the new interest rates, I was still thinking 2%-3%.
modeless 3y ago
Pretty much everywhere at current mortgage rates. Prices have barely budged as rates skyrocketed. My rent is less than half of the mortgage payment needed to buy my current house at its current zestimate price on a 6.7% 30 year fixed mortgage. And that's not even counting property tax and insurance and maintenance and the opportunity cost of the 20% down payment. You'd have to be insane to buy at these prices right now.
waaaaaaat 3y ago
not answering the question, but many parts of north brooklyn, NYC are other such areas. I'm looking at the exact same math problem. Paying 7k a month for a place that you couldn't possibly rent for more than 5k.

San Francisco. A house that costs $8,000 per month in rent might cost $2M to buy. At $2M that's $9,500 in mortgage payment at 6% for 30 years, about $2,800 in property taxes, another $300 in insurance, and maybe assume $500 per month maintenance (over the long haul). That's ~$13,000 per month when rent is $8,000. You can knock the $1,500 per month off the mortgage payment that is paying off principle, but you'd also need to account for the opportunity cost of a $400,000 down payment at some modest return of say 4% which is ~$1,300, so it's about breakeven. The you need to account for transactions costs - all the closing fees and the 5-6% realtor fee when you sell. All in, if you rent in SF, but invest the savings from owning, you're not really far behind someone who buys, but of course it all depends on price appreciation and over what time period. That's not to say you can't get lucky and buy right before some massive price appreciation then sell and lock in the gains. But unless you have a crystal ball, you can't time that sort of stuff.

rottencupcakes 3y ago
Thanks so much for clarifying. I hadn't adjusted my mental models for the new interest rates, I was still thinking 2%-3%.

modeless 3y ago

Pretty much everywhere at current mortgage rates. Prices have barely budged as rates skyrocketed. My rent is less than half of the mortgage payment needed to buy my current house at its current zestimate price on a 6.7% 30 year fixed mortgage. And that's not even counting property tax and insurance and maintenance and the opportunity cost of the 20% down payment. You'd have to be insane to buy at these prices right now.

waaaaaaat 3y ago

not answering the question, but many parts of north brooklyn, NYC are other such areas. I'm looking at the exact same math problem. Paying 7k a month for a place that you couldn't possibly rent for more than 5k.