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I am pretty open about my past failures with others but I definitely understand why people aren't. There is a stigma associated with failure that society still

by kxrm 3y ago

I am pretty open about my past failures with others but I definitely understand why people aren't. There is a stigma associated with failure that society still hasn't accepted. My last job I held the title of VP of Engineering. It was a small company and during my time there I recognized that the title was outsized for what I actually did. I was actually more of an Engineering Manager. All of my direct reports were ICs not other managers. I ended up leaving that job because politically at that company I had no voice, and people above me lacked basic leadership skills and continually failed to recognize it. Additionally whenever I would call out issues, it always would somehow manifest into a problem with me. So I ended up leaving, and not on great terms. Once I took a long break, I started looking for jobs again. The title I carried on my resume was bullshit, and trying to interview for Senior Engineering positions proved difficult. When I made the interview I made it clear what I did at that company. I told them that the title didn't represent my duties. I feel like some saw this as a blight. I finally accepted a job as a Software Engineer and now am slowly fixing my career. The lesson I learned was to never accept a worthless title. Somehow people still misunderstand my directness about this job in my history. It carries a strange weight, but hopefully with time I can correct it.

dwrodri 3y ago
Was there a strong reason why you never just… changed the title on your résumé? I would assume the position you ended up in is a function of many different things, but if people embellish their accomplishments on their résumés by making them seem “bigger”, i see no reason why it’s not worth changing it to seem smaller.
- kxrm 3y ago
  I did, but doesn't this basically go against what this article is saying? Plus if they ever called to confirm my position at the prior company, how would the old company react?
  - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
    > but doesn't this basically go against what this article is saying? The article is saying don’t hide from or pad your failures. Your failure was not a wrong title.
- remote_phone 3y ago
  Yup. Change your title to Senior Manager and be done with it. I don’t know why you would stick with VP of Engineering when everyone including yourself knew it was BS. There’s no shame in correcting the title.
Arisaka1 3y ago
>There is a stigma associated with failure that society still hasn't accepted. I don't think that the stigma is only associated with failure, but also with lacking talent/gift. Founders, developers, etc. simply want to look pristine, flawless, gifted. The mythical unicorn who "everything who touches turns to success" and any setback or effort is downplayed. In the company I previously worked for as a junior developer I had 2 colleagues. Let's call them Tom and Bob. I once made the mistake of asking for feedback on how to improve from Tom. And the mistake I made was thinking that his feedback would focus on maximizing constructiveness aka. inform me with ways that would be actionable for me. When I asked him how to "become as good as you are" what he instead gave me as an answer was "my brain simply works differently". We can argue over whether I asked the right or wrong question and I will agree with you that perhaps if the question was posed differently the answer may have been more constructive. However, I don't think that this detracts anything from my original point: When communicating, especially in career/business contexts, we have multiple goals in mind. And one of the goals that we have is to ensure that we don't show to others how hard we had to work, or how many times we failed until we understood a concept. And this need will never ever go away, because impressions and perceptions are important. It's also the reason why companies will insist on keeping in their job openings "call for talents", "seeking talented developers", etc. I've even seen Linkedin job posts with 200+ applicants and at first was impressed, but then found out that some companies just reopen the same job ad to avoid resetting the counter because apparently having "200+ applicants" is giving the impression that lots of developers out there who would do anything to join them. You'll always have people or/and companies that prettify or up-sell something they did because (especially in career contexts) perception and impression is important, and it's not just about being constructive/educational to other founders/developers etc. but to also look great while doing it.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  I agree with the thrust of your post, but sometimes people simply can't give advice on certain matters because they don't face the same challenges that you do. I had a brilliant professor once, aware of the fact that he didn't really actually need to try, he was just incredibly gifted as a mathematician and for him undergrad was a walk in the park. He knew that he could teach us, but dealing with "the struggle" wasn't something he could empathise with. People often ask me how I had the motivation/discipline or drive to achieve certain long term goals and my honest answer is that they just didn't seem optional to me, like how one might brush their teeth without thinking. I couldn't give actionable advice to someone who, for example, "wants to get in shape" beyond what are essentially tautologies like just eat less and exercise more.

by kxrm 3y ago

dwrodri 3y ago

Was there a strong reason why you never just… changed the title on your résumé? I would assume the position you ended up in is a function of many different things, but if people embellish their accomplishments on their résumés by making them seem “bigger”, i see no reason why it’s not worth changing it to seem smaller.

kxrm 3y ago
I did, but doesn't this basically go against what this article is saying? Plus if they ever called to confirm my position at the prior company, how would the old company react?
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  > but doesn't this basically go against what this article is saying? The article is saying don’t hide from or pad your failures. Your failure was not a wrong title.
remote_phone 3y ago
Yup. Change your title to Senior Manager and be done with it. I don’t know why you would stick with VP of Engineering when everyone including yourself knew it was BS. There’s no shame in correcting the title.

Arisaka1 3y ago

>There is a stigma associated with failure that society still hasn't accepted. I don't think that the stigma is only associated with failure, but also with lacking talent/gift. Founders, developers, etc. simply want to look pristine, flawless, gifted. The mythical unicorn who "everything who touches turns to success" and any setback or effort is downplayed. In the company I previously worked for as a junior developer I had 2 colleagues. Let's call them Tom and Bob. I once made the mistake of asking for feedback on how to improve from Tom. And the mistake I made was thinking that his feedback would focus on maximizing constructiveness aka. inform me with ways that would be actionable for me. When I asked him how to "become as good as you are" what he instead gave me as an answer was "my brain simply works differently". We can argue over whether I asked the right or wrong question and I will agree with you that perhaps if the question was posed differently the answer may have been more constructive. However, I don't think that this detracts anything from my original point: When communicating, especially in career/business contexts, we have multiple goals in mind. And one of the goals that we have is to ensure that we don't show to others how hard we had to work, or how many times we failed until we understood a concept. And this need will never ever go away, because impressions and perceptions are important. It's also the reason why companies will insist on keeping in their job openings "call for talents", "seeking talented developers", etc. I've even seen Linkedin job posts with 200+ applicants and at first was impressed, but then found out that some companies just reopen the same job ad to avoid resetting the counter because apparently having "200+ applicants" is giving the impression that lots of developers out there who would do anything to join them. You'll always have people or/and companies that prettify or up-sell something they did because (especially in career contexts) perception and impression is important, and it's not just about being constructive/educational to other founders/developers etc. but to also look great while doing it.

throwaway22032 3y ago
I agree with the thrust of your post, but sometimes people simply can't give advice on certain matters because they don't face the same challenges that you do. I had a brilliant professor once, aware of the fact that he didn't really actually need to try, he was just incredibly gifted as a mathematician and for him undergrad was a walk in the park. He knew that he could teach us, but dealing with "the struggle" wasn't something he could empathise with. People often ask me how I had the motivation/discipline or drive to achieve certain long term goals and my honest answer is that they just didn't seem optional to me, like how one might brush their teeth without thinking. I couldn't give actionable advice to someone who, for example, "wants to get in shape" beyond what are essentially tautologies like just eat less and exercise more.