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In engineering (electrical, mechanical, civil) we have professional licensure[0]. It doesn't mean you can't design an electric system without a license. It mean

In engineering (electrical, mechanical, civil) we have professional licensure[0]. It doesn't mean you can't design an electric system without a license. It means you can't represent yourself as an engineer, nor can you stamp engineering drawings. There are some legal situations, particularly building / structural where stamped drawings are needed, and so only a P.Eng can do that. But if it's say designing a circuit board, or a machined part, there is no generic regulation, and anyone can do it. There is already "software engineering" as a regulated discipline, and similar rules apply there. I have no idea if there are any situations where you need a stamped software deliverable. But they would have an engineers stamp. I have one (as an electrical engineer) that I haven't used and don't expect to. All that to say, what matters is the combination of professional licensing and the requirement for a licensed professional. In engineering (applied science), it's actually pretty rare, even though it's a regulated profession. [0] I'm in Canada, I think the US system is similar

titanomachy 3y ago
I'm aware that "software engineer" as a regulated profession exists in Canada. The only consequence that I'm aware of is that tech companies in Canada call their engineers "software developers" instead. In years of working in tech I've never had a coworker who was a licensed Software Engineer. All I'm saying is that it's unlikely that the bulk of activity we currently think of as "software engineering" will someday full under a level of professional regulation comparable to surgeons, pilots, or civil engineers.
- version_five 3y ago
  Yes I agree, and to a large extent (from what I know) creating that designation was marketing from universities. To be a licensed engineer in Canada you need the degree and then 4 years' experience working under licensed P.Eng which in software is basically impossible. So most people would have the degree but never apply for licensure.
sys_64738 3y ago
I'm not sure what the regulated discipline of SW engineering is. For sure, writing software out with this is not real engineering and shouldn't be called such. I would never call myself a SW engineer as I'm not a real engineer.
mitthrowaway2 3y ago
Within British Columbia at least, the "practice of professional engineering" means the provision of advice or services that are based on an engineering discipline, or ancillary to those. "Engineering discipline" means "agricultural, biomedical, bioresource, biosystems, building, chemical, civil, computer, electrical, environmental, food, forest, geological, geomatics, industrial, marine, mechanical, mechatronics, metallurgical, mining, naval architecture, nuclear, petroleum, software and structural engineering and engineering physics". So professional licensing is required for any provision of advice or services relating to software engineering (etc), including services internal to a company. And a professional engineer is required to stamp any documents containing engineering content that are expected to be relied on by others. (I'm not disagreeing with you. You don't need to be a professional engineer to have a circuit board made or a part machined. But you might need to stamp your design drawings as part of a certification process, or if others will be relying on them).
- titanomachy 3y ago
  > professional licensing is required for any provision of advice or services relating to software engineering... including internal to a company. Even if this is what the law says, I've never seen it have any impact on the real world. In BC, like everywhere else, people with no license of any kind routinely write software that other people depend on and release it into the world, with no oversight from a licensed engineer at any point in the process.

titanomachy 3y ago

I'm aware that "software engineer" as a regulated profession exists in Canada. The only consequence that I'm aware of is that tech companies in Canada call their engineers "software developers" instead. In years of working in tech I've never had a coworker who was a licensed Software Engineer. All I'm saying is that it's unlikely that the bulk of activity we currently think of as "software engineering" will someday full under a level of professional regulation comparable to surgeons, pilots, or civil engineers.

version_five 3y ago
Yes I agree, and to a large extent (from what I know) creating that designation was marketing from universities. To be a licensed engineer in Canada you need the degree and then 4 years' experience working under licensed P.Eng which in software is basically impossible. So most people would have the degree but never apply for licensure.

sys_64738 3y ago

I'm not sure what the regulated discipline of SW engineering is. For sure, writing software out with this is not real engineering and shouldn't be called such. I would never call myself a SW engineer as I'm not a real engineer.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago

Within British Columbia at least, the "practice of professional engineering" means the provision of advice or services that are based on an engineering discipline, or ancillary to those. "Engineering discipline" means "agricultural, biomedical, bioresource, biosystems, building, chemical, civil, computer, electrical, environmental, food, forest, geological, geomatics, industrial, marine, mechanical, mechatronics, metallurgical, mining, naval architecture, nuclear, petroleum, software and structural engineering and engineering physics". So professional licensing is required for any provision of advice or services relating to software engineering (etc), including services internal to a company. And a professional engineer is required to stamp any documents containing engineering content that are expected to be relied on by others. (I'm not disagreeing with you. You don't need to be a professional engineer to have a circuit board made or a part machined. But you might need to stamp your design drawings as part of a certification process, or if others will be relying on them).

titanomachy 3y ago
> professional licensing is required for any provision of advice or services relating to software engineering... including internal to a company. Even if this is what the law says, I've never seen it have any impact on the real world. In BC, like everywhere else, people with no license of any kind routinely write software that other people depend on and release it into the world, with no oversight from a licensed engineer at any point in the process.