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Manchins vote matters more because it is the tiebreaker that matters.. we have to live in the real world. Here’s some questions: Have Democrats never had the po

Manchins vote matters more because it is the tiebreaker that matters.. we have to live in the real world. Here’s some questions: Have Democrats never had the political power to make change? Did the Obama presidency not exist? Let’s be real.. the Dems have explicitly made it a policy to move towards the right in order to appeal to GOP voters. This isn’t just some conspiracy theory, it has been explicitly stated by dem officials at conventions, in interviews, and covered at length in liberal venues like the infamous Pod Save America episode on the Clinton campaign strategy. If democrats were as militant about their positions as the GOP, maybe they’d have more than one major liberal policy win made through legislation in the past 50 years.. but they’re not, and they don’t.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
It is not the tiebreaker. There are 49 other votes that could also be a tiebreaker. > Have Democrats never had the political power to make change? Did the Obama presidency not exist? Correct. They had the votes for 6 months in 2009 in which they passed the most comprehensive reform that I have seen in my adult life, the Affordable Care Act. > If democrats were as militant about their positions as the GOP, maybe they’d have more than one major liberal policy win made through legislation in the past 50 years.. but they’re not, and they don’t. Makes zero sense given the numbers of votes needed, but okay. Even the ACA barely had the numbers, which is why it has to be watered down to attract the Republican-lite members to vote with the rest of the Democrats.
- femiagbabiaka 3y ago
  But see, you’ve already given up the game: The Dems had a supermajority then, there were no compromises that had to be made except amongst themselves. So the Manchins of the party matter. A lot. And it’s not just Manchin — Pelosi up until the end was only two clicks left of him herself. And just like you’re doing now, the Dems use the GOP as an excuse instead of ramming their political agenda through for all of our sakes. The Democrats always have an excuse for why they need to compromise to the right, why their hands were tied and there was nothing they could do, and it doesn’t matter how much they disappoint, some people will eat it up every time. It’s what allows Biden to call himself the most labor friendly president ever while crushing rail worker strikes. It’s what allows the absolute failure of policy called Obamacare to take up the national conversation. It’s what led to the conservative majority in the court. And it’s what led to the election of Trump, and why he’s still got a shot, even when he’s one foot out of federal prison. Maybe one day the Dems will learn. But not while their base keeps eating up their excuses and sending them money and votes…
  - vel0city 3y ago
    So what, were you expecting them to solve every single problem the US faces in six months, and since they didn't clearly they just weren't actually trying and obviously the same as the GOP?
    - femiagbabiaka 3y ago
      You’re moving the goal posts. They didn’t even hit the mark on the only thing they tried to do.. they completely lost the Obamacare campaign with the American people as well. During the Obamacare rollout I was actually on the ground in rural Missouri educating people, trying to get them on board with Medicaid expansion. They didn’t want to hear it until I personalized the message, talked about rural healthcare disparities, etc. Instead of doing that, bringing a left wing message to working people, the Dems (including the senator I was working for at the time) just moved to the right. I was there, I remember what happened. I remember Hillary pandering to the right. I remember the moves like the anti-LGBTQ rhetoric from Dems. I expect better from the only viable liberal party in America.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        How did you expect them to get 60 votes in the Senate without moving to the “right”? You think a senator in 2009 was voting no because they thought the ACA was not sufficiently “left”? Can you list those senators? Without that, it seems like you were dreaming of a fantasy ending.
        femiagbabiaka 3y ago
        You’re so focused on arguing that you’ve completely circled around to the point I was making from the beginning, which is that the Dems use the GOP to hide from that fact that their own party is controlled by right wing interests. So yeah, they’re a right wing party, only better than the GOP in ways that matter to out of touch liberals, incapable of achieving anything that doesn’t involve shallow Supreme Court decisions. They are completely and totally incapable of solving the climate crisis because they will always capitulate to the lowest common denominator — only on the right though of course. Pelosi was great at whipping the Squad into supporting whatever milquetoast policies she wanted, Schumer as well, but somehow that never ends up working on the right wing folks, I wonder why… Of course, it doesn’t have to be that way. Dems could rally against corporate lobbying and for the better good. After all, they’ve been trying the opposite way for the last 50 years or more and failing in truly embarrassing fashion. Losing elections to literal conspiracy theorists, conmen, and bigots. But it won’t happen, because this way makes them rich and there are no consequences for them that matter. They simply choose to let things be this way and the Democrat base lets them get away with it.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

It is not the tiebreaker. There are 49 other votes that could also be a tiebreaker. > Have Democrats never had the political power to make change? Did the Obama presidency not exist? Correct. They had the votes for 6 months in 2009 in which they passed the most comprehensive reform that I have seen in my adult life, the Affordable Care Act. > If democrats were as militant about their positions as the GOP, maybe they’d have more than one major liberal policy win made through legislation in the past 50 years.. but they’re not, and they don’t. Makes zero sense given the numbers of votes needed, but okay. Even the ACA barely had the numbers, which is why it has to be watered down to attract the Republican-lite members to vote with the rest of the Democrats.

femiagbabiaka 3y ago
But see, you’ve already given up the game: The Dems had a supermajority then, there were no compromises that had to be made except amongst themselves. So the Manchins of the party matter. A lot. And it’s not just Manchin — Pelosi up until the end was only two clicks left of him herself. And just like you’re doing now, the Dems use the GOP as an excuse instead of ramming their political agenda through for all of our sakes. The Democrats always have an excuse for why they need to compromise to the right, why their hands were tied and there was nothing they could do, and it doesn’t matter how much they disappoint, some people will eat it up every time. It’s what allows Biden to call himself the most labor friendly president ever while crushing rail worker strikes. It’s what allows the absolute failure of policy called Obamacare to take up the national conversation. It’s what led to the conservative majority in the court. And it’s what led to the election of Trump, and why he’s still got a shot, even when he’s one foot out of federal prison. Maybe one day the Dems will learn. But not while their base keeps eating up their excuses and sending them money and votes…
- vel0city 3y ago
  So what, were you expecting them to solve every single problem the US faces in six months, and since they didn't clearly they just weren't actually trying and obviously the same as the GOP?
  - femiagbabiaka 3y ago
    You’re moving the goal posts. They didn’t even hit the mark on the only thing they tried to do.. they completely lost the Obamacare campaign with the American people as well. During the Obamacare rollout I was actually on the ground in rural Missouri educating people, trying to get them on board with Medicaid expansion. They didn’t want to hear it until I personalized the message, talked about rural healthcare disparities, etc. Instead of doing that, bringing a left wing message to working people, the Dems (including the senator I was working for at the time) just moved to the right. I was there, I remember what happened. I remember Hillary pandering to the right. I remember the moves like the anti-LGBTQ rhetoric from Dems. I expect better from the only viable liberal party in America.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      How did you expect them to get 60 votes in the Senate without moving to the “right”? You think a senator in 2009 was voting no because they thought the ACA was not sufficiently “left”? Can you list those senators? Without that, it seems like you were dreaming of a fantasy ending.
      - femiagbabiaka 3y ago
        You’re so focused on arguing that you’ve completely circled around to the point I was making from the beginning, which is that the Dems use the GOP to hide from that fact that their own party is controlled by right wing interests. So yeah, they’re a right wing party, only better than the GOP in ways that matter to out of touch liberals, incapable of achieving anything that doesn’t involve shallow Supreme Court decisions. They are completely and totally incapable of solving the climate crisis because they will always capitulate to the lowest common denominator — only on the right though of course. Pelosi was great at whipping the Squad into supporting whatever milquetoast policies she wanted, Schumer as well, but somehow that never ends up working on the right wing folks, I wonder why… Of course, it doesn’t have to be that way. Dems could rally against corporate lobbying and for the better good. After all, they’ve been trying the opposite way for the last 50 years or more and failing in truly embarrassing fashion. Losing elections to literal conspiracy theorists, conmen, and bigots. But it won’t happen, because this way makes them rich and there are no consequences for them that matter. They simply choose to let things be this way and the Democrat base lets them get away with it.