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Kinda. As an example, oil nearly everywhere gets huge subsidies. Just the industry in the US, gets about $10 to $50 billion per year [1]. But those costs someho

by V__ 3y ago

Kinda. As an example, oil nearly everywhere gets huge subsidies. Just the industry in the US, gets about $10 to $50 billion per year [1]. But those costs somehow don't seem to matter much because oil is the default. At the same time, solar/wind is often the cheapest energy source (even without subsidies). Replacing/rebuilding infrastructure is always expensive, but infrastructure which is already in place isn't free either. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-budget-target-us-fossil-fuel-subsidies-2023-03-09/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-budget-target-...

willcipriano 3y ago
If solar is cheaper why aren't you building solar plants in China and India right now, you'd make millions undercutting the coal plants they are currently building. I guess everyone involved in energy there is a idiot?
- V__ 3y ago
  If I had the money I would. But don't worry other people (idiots apperently) are. China and India are both some of the leading countries in added solar and wind capacity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_by_country
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Also coal and that lead is expanding, why?
    - V__ 3y ago
      Multiple factors. The grid infrastructure isn't always there, the upfront cost is often higher (even if it is cheaper in the long run), production capacities as well as the fact that battery storage is just starting to catch up.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        > battery storage is just starting to catch up Wait a minute. I thought solar is cheaper. Now you are telling me they need batteries? I would've assumed that the batteries are part of that cheaper claim, otherwise you wouldn't have power at night at that claim would be very disingenuous. Sounds like the developing world still needs fossil fuels to escape poverty.
        V__ 3y ago
        Depending on what type of battery you use or how long you want to store it, it can be cheaper or cost competitive. But the same factors apply as well, production capacities are not catching up fast enough. Still, The end of fossil fuels is inevitable, as renewable sectors keep growing. Also, the potential for small nuclear reactors or maybe even fusion could change this even faster. If politics had backed renewables a few decades ago just as much as they back fossil fuels, we wouldn't even need to have these discussions.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        > Still, The end of fossil fuels is inevitable, I agree, but until we are using renewables exclusively (as in the first world) wagging a finger at places where the average income is a tenth of ours is really unacceptable. They can't afford batteries yet and they deserve power in the evening as much as we do.
        V__ 3y ago
        Absolutely. That's why it is so frustrating to see the nations who can afford it (US, EU etc), still putting up or keeping unnecessary hurdles. Let's hope for the best.

by V__ 3y ago

willcipriano 3y ago

If solar is cheaper why aren't you building solar plants in China and India right now, you'd make millions undercutting the coal plants they are currently building. I guess everyone involved in energy there is a idiot?

V__ 3y ago
If I had the money I would. But don't worry other people (idiots apperently) are. China and India are both some of the leading countries in added solar and wind capacity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_by_country
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Also coal and that lead is expanding, why?
  - V__ 3y ago
    Multiple factors. The grid infrastructure isn't always there, the upfront cost is often higher (even if it is cheaper in the long run), production capacities as well as the fact that battery storage is just starting to catch up.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      > battery storage is just starting to catch up Wait a minute. I thought solar is cheaper. Now you are telling me they need batteries? I would've assumed that the batteries are part of that cheaper claim, otherwise you wouldn't have power at night at that claim would be very disingenuous. Sounds like the developing world still needs fossil fuels to escape poverty.
      - V__ 3y ago
        Depending on what type of battery you use or how long you want to store it, it can be cheaper or cost competitive. But the same factors apply as well, production capacities are not catching up fast enough. Still, The end of fossil fuels is inevitable, as renewable sectors keep growing. Also, the potential for small nuclear reactors or maybe even fusion could change this even faster. If politics had backed renewables a few decades ago just as much as they back fossil fuels, we wouldn't even need to have these discussions.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        > Still, The end of fossil fuels is inevitable, I agree, but until we are using renewables exclusively (as in the first world) wagging a finger at places where the average income is a tenth of ours is really unacceptable. They can't afford batteries yet and they deserve power in the evening as much as we do.
        V__ 3y ago
        Absolutely. That's why it is so frustrating to see the nations who can afford it (US, EU etc), still putting up or keeping unnecessary hurdles. Let's hope for the best.