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Yeah the GOP is like the useful boogeyman, but most Dems are no better. Hell, the most powerful parts of the Dems include folks like Joe Manchin, who's right in

Yeah the GOP is like the useful boogeyman, but most Dems are no better. Hell, the most powerful parts of the Dems include folks like Joe Manchin, who's right in the bag of coal. Even in a world where Hillary Clinton won the 2016 election and followed through on her policy goals, they were still too timid to turn the tide.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Why is Joe Manchin’s vote more powerful than the other Senators’ votes? If you need 50 or 60 votes to do something, and you do not have it, then is the 50th or 60th vote more powerful than the other 49 and 59? And what about the other 49 and 39 votes that will not compromise? Kind of ridiculous to pin this on a party that has not had enough votes to make a change. Especially when the states making the most progress towards reducing carbon emissions are Democrat led.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
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- esotericimpl 3y ago
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- femiagbabiaka 3y ago
  Manchins vote matters more because it is the tiebreaker that matters.. we have to live in the real world. Here’s some questions: Have Democrats never had the political power to make change? Did the Obama presidency not exist? Let’s be real.. the Dems have explicitly made it a policy to move towards the right in order to appeal to GOP voters. This isn’t just some conspiracy theory, it has been explicitly stated by dem officials at conventions, in interviews, and covered at length in liberal venues like the infamous Pod Save America episode on the Clinton campaign strategy. If democrats were as militant about their positions as the GOP, maybe they’d have more than one major liberal policy win made through legislation in the past 50 years.. but they’re not, and they don’t.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    It is not the tiebreaker. There are 49 other votes that could also be a tiebreaker. > Have Democrats never had the political power to make change? Did the Obama presidency not exist? Correct. They had the votes for 6 months in 2009 in which they passed the most comprehensive reform that I have seen in my adult life, the Affordable Care Act. > If democrats were as militant about their positions as the GOP, maybe they’d have more than one major liberal policy win made through legislation in the past 50 years.. but they’re not, and they don’t. Makes zero sense given the numbers of votes needed, but okay. Even the ACA barely had the numbers, which is why it has to be watered down to attract the Republican-lite members to vote with the rest of the Democrats.
    - femiagbabiaka 3y ago
      But see, you’ve already given up the game: The Dems had a supermajority then, there were no compromises that had to be made except amongst themselves. So the Manchins of the party matter. A lot. And it’s not just Manchin — Pelosi up until the end was only two clicks left of him herself. And just like you’re doing now, the Dems use the GOP as an excuse instead of ramming their political agenda through for all of our sakes. The Democrats always have an excuse for why they need to compromise to the right, why their hands were tied and there was nothing they could do, and it doesn’t matter how much they disappoint, some people will eat it up every time. It’s what allows Biden to call himself the most labor friendly president ever while crushing rail worker strikes. It’s what allows the absolute failure of policy called Obamacare to take up the national conversation. It’s what led to the conservative majority in the court. And it’s what led to the election of Trump, and why he’s still got a shot, even when he’s one foot out of federal prison. Maybe one day the Dems will learn. But not while their base keeps eating up their excuses and sending them money and votes…
      - vel0city 3y ago
        So what, were you expecting them to solve every single problem the US faces in six months, and since they didn't clearly they just weren't actually trying and obviously the same as the GOP?

lotsofpulp 3y ago

Why is Joe Manchin’s vote more powerful than the other Senators’ votes? If you need 50 or 60 votes to do something, and you do not have it, then is the 50th or 60th vote more powerful than the other 49 and 59? And what about the other 49 and 39 votes that will not compromise? Kind of ridiculous to pin this on a party that has not had enough votes to make a change. Especially when the states making the most progress towards reducing carbon emissions are Democrat led.

AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
[dead]
esotericimpl 3y ago
[dead]
femiagbabiaka 3y ago
Manchins vote matters more because it is the tiebreaker that matters.. we have to live in the real world. Here’s some questions: Have Democrats never had the political power to make change? Did the Obama presidency not exist? Let’s be real.. the Dems have explicitly made it a policy to move towards the right in order to appeal to GOP voters. This isn’t just some conspiracy theory, it has been explicitly stated by dem officials at conventions, in interviews, and covered at length in liberal venues like the infamous Pod Save America episode on the Clinton campaign strategy. If democrats were as militant about their positions as the GOP, maybe they’d have more than one major liberal policy win made through legislation in the past 50 years.. but they’re not, and they don’t.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  It is not the tiebreaker. There are 49 other votes that could also be a tiebreaker. > Have Democrats never had the political power to make change? Did the Obama presidency not exist? Correct. They had the votes for 6 months in 2009 in which they passed the most comprehensive reform that I have seen in my adult life, the Affordable Care Act. > If democrats were as militant about their positions as the GOP, maybe they’d have more than one major liberal policy win made through legislation in the past 50 years.. but they’re not, and they don’t. Makes zero sense given the numbers of votes needed, but okay. Even the ACA barely had the numbers, which is why it has to be watered down to attract the Republican-lite members to vote with the rest of the Democrats.
  - femiagbabiaka 3y ago
    But see, you’ve already given up the game: The Dems had a supermajority then, there were no compromises that had to be made except amongst themselves. So the Manchins of the party matter. A lot. And it’s not just Manchin — Pelosi up until the end was only two clicks left of him herself. And just like you’re doing now, the Dems use the GOP as an excuse instead of ramming their political agenda through for all of our sakes. The Democrats always have an excuse for why they need to compromise to the right, why their hands were tied and there was nothing they could do, and it doesn’t matter how much they disappoint, some people will eat it up every time. It’s what allows Biden to call himself the most labor friendly president ever while crushing rail worker strikes. It’s what allows the absolute failure of policy called Obamacare to take up the national conversation. It’s what led to the conservative majority in the court. And it’s what led to the election of Trump, and why he’s still got a shot, even when he’s one foot out of federal prison. Maybe one day the Dems will learn. But not while their base keeps eating up their excuses and sending them money and votes…
    - vel0city 3y ago
      So what, were you expecting them to solve every single problem the US faces in six months, and since they didn't clearly they just weren't actually trying and obviously the same as the GOP?