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How many of these employees are in the country legally? How many of them actually have much choice at all in their employment? The "great" thing about the syst

How many of these employees are in the country legally? How many of them actually have much choice at all in their employment? The "great" thing about the system is that the poorer the employees are, the lower a wage they will accept. So "fair" payment is only fair if they aren't poor and have options. If you don't believe that, do you believe that price gouging does not exist by definition? It's exactly the same thing for transactional purchases, not labor relations.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> The "great" thing about the system is that the poorer the employees are, the lower a wage they will accept. People who accept low wages are poor by definition. But the only solution to this is opportunity. You can't get there by prohibiting that person's current best option. You don't make more money by working 40 hours at $30/hour than 70 hours at $30/hour. > If you don't believe that, do you believe that price gouging does not exist by definition? "Price gouging" is when sellers raise prices during a temporary period of high demand. It's not even obvious that this is bad -- it disincentivizes hoarding and makes sure goods are still on the shelves during an emergency for people who really need them. Paying the market rate for labor is what any business in a competitive market has to do or a competitor will do it, undercut them on price and put them out of business. The market rate for unskilled labor is low. The known solutions are things like learning a trade so you can do skilled labor, or automating production or reducing housing scarcity so that prices come down and the wages unskilled workers can earn go further. Many of the laws passed in this regard are highly counterproductive, because they don't do those things, they result in having your hours cut with no change to your hourly wage for the people directly affected, and higher prices for people in general.
- kennywinker 3y ago
  > But the only solution to this is opportunity. Is it? Because tech has created a lot of opportunities over the past 50 years, but we still have farmers working 70 hours during the harvest for a handful of $1400 paycheques. And the middle class continues to shrink…
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Because we keep foreclosing opportunities instead of creating new ones. Pass laws that make it harder for small businesses to compete with big ones, increase housing scarcity so people's wages go to landlords, professional organizations like the AMA pushing to restrict the supply of doctors which both makes it harder for people to become a doctor and raises healthcare costs. "Labor laws" like this are the worse-than-nothing they toss you to pretend they're doing something about any of this when they're really in bed with everyone screwing you.
- quantified 3y ago
  The market rate for unskilled is low because the unskilled give their labor away for cheap. Nothing intrinsic, they're just poor. Unskilled rich people don't work for cheap.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    There is no reason to pay someone above market rates just because they have money. When a business needs someone to work an ordinary job, they're not going to pay a billionaire a ton of money even if it's the only way to get them to take that job, they're just going to hire someone else. The reason doctors get paid more than farm workers isn't because they're already rich. A doctor right out of medical school often has more debt than anyone.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

> The "great" thing about the system is that the poorer the employees are, the lower a wage they will accept. People who accept low wages are poor by definition. But the only solution to this is opportunity. You can't get there by prohibiting that person's current best option. You don't make more money by working 40 hours at $30/hour than 70 hours at $30/hour. > If you don't believe that, do you believe that price gouging does not exist by definition? "Price gouging" is when sellers raise prices during a temporary period of high demand. It's not even obvious that this is bad -- it disincentivizes hoarding and makes sure goods are still on the shelves during an emergency for people who really need them. Paying the market rate for labor is what any business in a competitive market has to do or a competitor will do it, undercut them on price and put them out of business. The market rate for unskilled labor is low. The known solutions are things like learning a trade so you can do skilled labor, or automating production or reducing housing scarcity so that prices come down and the wages unskilled workers can earn go further. Many of the laws passed in this regard are highly counterproductive, because they don't do those things, they result in having your hours cut with no change to your hourly wage for the people directly affected, and higher prices for people in general.

kennywinker 3y ago
> But the only solution to this is opportunity. Is it? Because tech has created a lot of opportunities over the past 50 years, but we still have farmers working 70 hours during the harvest for a handful of $1400 paycheques. And the middle class continues to shrink…
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Because we keep foreclosing opportunities instead of creating new ones. Pass laws that make it harder for small businesses to compete with big ones, increase housing scarcity so people's wages go to landlords, professional organizations like the AMA pushing to restrict the supply of doctors which both makes it harder for people to become a doctor and raises healthcare costs. "Labor laws" like this are the worse-than-nothing they toss you to pretend they're doing something about any of this when they're really in bed with everyone screwing you.
quantified 3y ago
The market rate for unskilled is low because the unskilled give their labor away for cheap. Nothing intrinsic, they're just poor. Unskilled rich people don't work for cheap.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  There is no reason to pay someone above market rates just because they have money. When a business needs someone to work an ordinary job, they're not going to pay a billionaire a ton of money even if it's the only way to get them to take that job, they're just going to hire someone else. The reason doctors get paid more than farm workers isn't because they're already rich. A doctor right out of medical school often has more debt than anyone.