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115F is 46C. I was surprised to learn that iPhones and iPads are only specified to operate between 0-35C (32-95F) ambient[1] -- even cheap consumer-grade ICs t
by AdamH12113 3y ago
115F is 46C.
I was surprised to learn that iPhones and iPads are only specified to operate between 0-35C (32-95F) ambient[1] -- even cheap consumer-grade ICs typically work up to 70C/158F. 95F/35C is a perfectly ordinary outdoor temperature during the peak of summer in America's south, and temperatures below 32F/0C are common anywhere it snows. (0C is the standard lower limit of the consumer temperature grade, however.)
I suppose cooling such a small, dense device much be difficult, and having everything pressed against the battery (with its presumably lower temperature limit) probably doesn't help either. Still, I feel like a portable electronic device ought to be able to work in places other than California.
[1] https://www.apple.com/iphone-14/specs/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-14/specs/
- fatfingerd 3y agoThe O°C lower limit sounds optimistic for a li-po battery, unless you don't care about how many minutes it operates.
- ls612 3y agoIn Minnesota the winters can easily fall below -20C consistently and I’ve never had my phone stop working outside.
- fatfingerd 3y agoI keep my own phone in my pocket so it's unlikely to have a problem, but I've seen one die quick kept in a bag and we weren't really sure if temperature was the cause..
- Arrath 3y agoMy first phone (a Motorola flip phone) bit the dust after some time in my pocket walking around below freezing temperatures. Some cells within the battery burst/swelled so the battery casing pushed away from the phone and lost contact. If I pushed it in, it worked as long as I maintained contact with the pressure.
- taylodl 3y agoCold isn't usually a problem so long as you take proper precautions to not allow condensation to form inside the phone when warming it back up again - that's what electronics manufacturers are concerned about.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoVHS VCRs used to suffer from condensation issues, and some had sensors for this: the display would show "DEW" if it detected internal moisture, and you've have to wait before inserting a tape.
- AdamH12113 3y agoRunning the phone would warm up the battery.
- chrisfosterelli 3y agoYeah I have been collecting these stats on my own devices about their operating temperatures and I'm often surprised how much smaller the range is than I was expecting. For example: Kobo eReader: 0 - 45C Pixel 6: 0 - 35C Macbook Pro: 10C - 35C Pixel Buds: 0 - 35C Garmin heart rate strap: 0 - 40C Garmin bike computer: -20 - 60C From talking to manufacturers I often hear "it will probably work outside this, but you'll have worse battery performance and eventually issues will arise". Another thing I hear is that, below zero, for wearable devices they will often stay at an OK temperature if they are in a pocket or beside your body.
- wongarsu 3y agoGarmin's strategy makes sense: a heart beat strap benefits from your body's temperature regulation, both to keep cool and keep warm; a bike computer has to take what it gets, but at least gets a lot of convection to keep temps reasonable when it sits in the sun. I'm most surprised that a MacBook Pro with its active cooling doesn't have a higher max temp than a smartphone.
- mrguyorama 3y agoActive cooling effectiveness depends significantly on the delta between incoming temperature and the heat source temperature, and the relationship is worse than linear I think.
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y agoNewton's Law of Cooling shows it's an exponential decay in heat transfer rate as the delta decreases.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_cooling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_cooling
- mrguyorama 3y agoThat was my intuition but it's not my field and I'm too lazy to look it up so I really didn't want to spread more precise but less accurate info.
- WeylandYutani 3y agoI'm guessing iPhone was designed to be used in airconditioned malls and office towers. Like how the only people you see outside in Kuwait are migrant workers. When I'm sitting on my South facing apartment balcony I can't use my phone which is annoying.
- weaksauce 3y agoit gets well over 95 degrees in socal often. today even.
- scruple 3y agoYes, easily. I'm surprised to see this, honestly. I've never had detectable problems with my devices when I am outside in the heat but I will be more conscious of this going forward. 35C is frankly laughable.
- rndmize 3y ago> able to work in places other than California They don't even work in California. I bought a new Pixel last summer and a few weeks later, was running around San Jose on a day that was around 95-100F (car doesn't have working AC). I left my phone on the front passenger seat in the sun for a few minutes and was getting warnings about the device overheating, apps were running terribly, and I had issues for some weeks after. And that's in the Bay - most of my friends live outside of it, where highs of 110F aren't uncommon.
- ahofmann 3y agoThe sun heats very well and temperatures are measured in the shadow for a good reason. Putting a phone in the sun is simply not a good idea and definitely not helpful when it comes to the question of how much heat such a device should withstand.
- AdamH12113 3y ago> Putting a phone in the sun is simply not a good idea I get what you're saying, but this is setting a very, very low bar for robustness.
- Tagbert 3y agoThe point is that putting a device in the sun will rapidly raise it's internal temperatures past its operating limits. "on a day that was around 95-100F" When you add solar heating that device is going to get hot and quickly. The internal temperatures of the SOC and battery will be out of range and the device will need to shut down to cool off.
- ilikecakeandpie 3y agoReporting in from the American South, it's been super hot lately and if I have my iPhone in my pocket while doing anything outside remotely active it starts acting up after a few minutes. It can be pretty rough when I'm trying to do yard work
- arghwhat 3y agoYou have to account for the heat of the phone itself. It is not unusual for CPUs to operate at 90 degrees celsius. Modern phones have a lot of power, generate a lot of peak heat from their SoC but has the worst possible cooling scenario - held near hit skin, covered in leather cases, etc. When you start at 35C you only have 25C left until the mentioned 70C, which components near the SoC Would quickly surpass. Higher rating is unlikely to help much - you need less heat generated or better heat dissipation.
- tim333 3y agoMy iPhone usually stops working if I lie in the sun using it for tethering and it's in the sun. I have to put a sunshade over it. This is in London which is not super hot usually. Though I'd say at a high temp than 35. It's probably like 50C when it stops working I'd guess from feeling it.
- rajnathani 3y agoThe reason for this is that while all the individual electronic components, the PCB, and even likely the peripherals such as the display panel, are all very likely rated for at least 70-85C, the lack of active cooling in smartphones is why an ambient temperature of >35C would spell disaster for smartphones (fortunately due to temperature awareness of the SoC, the SoC just shuts off). Even though the smartphone SoCs may dissipate around <2W of heat, to transfer that heat out of the chassis is pretty hard. This is coming from experience from working on a consumer electronics product where we have run at least 20 heat simulations on Autodesk and learnt how tough it is to dissipate out even 0.75W heat.
- DropInIn 3y agoHuh, only 35c? And here's I was surprised my s22 was only rated to 40c...