4 ms·

That, and the 400kW peak charging rate (most SuperChargers and batteries are only 250kW capable). With 3-4mi/kWh (7-10km/kWh) it's possible to get 100mi (150km)

by kurthr 3y ago

That, and the 400kW peak charging rate (most SuperChargers and batteries are only 250kW capable). With 3-4mi/kWh (7-10km/kWh) it's possible to get 100mi (150km) of charge in <5min. Even 100kW charging feels slow now (anything below 600mi/hr or 1200km/hr). That's not quite as fast as partially filling your gas tank, but it's within a factor of a few. Of course then next 100km can take 2-3x longer as the rate slows down from peak. (p.s. there are a lot of stations in the US with 20+ SuperChargers and people tend to fill up to 80-90% when traveling. They must be pulling MW!)

matthewdgreen 3y ago
It's honestly hard to pull into a highway charging station and spend less than 10 minutes there, after 2.5 to 3 hours of driving. I've noticed that Tesla's Navigation seems to be optimizing for 10-15 minute stops, and I'm never finished in the rest stop by the time the car says it's ready to continue.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Yes, charging can be quicker than filling with gasoline. 15 minutes charging can be done in parallel with the rest stop. OTOH 5 minutes filling with gasoline is done in serial with a bathroom break and buying a coffee.
  - nordsieck 3y ago
    > Yes, charging can be quicker than filling with gasoline. 15 minutes charging can be done in parallel with the rest stop. OTOH 5 minutes filling with gasoline is done in serial with a bathroom break and buying a coffee. I see people fill their tanks unattended all the time. Probably not a good idea, but it happens.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Filling unattended is illegal in many states.
      - nordsieck 3y ago
        > Filling unattended is illegal in many states. So is driving over the speed limit and rolling through stop signs. And yet, here we are.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      It's been years since I've encountered the required latch to fill a tank unattended. Maybe it's country specific.
      - tredre3 3y ago
        I've seen people jam their fuel cap in the handle to keep it latched. Probably illegal and against the rules of the station, but also probably not catastrophically dangerous.
      - nordsieck 3y ago
        > It's been years since I've encountered the required latch to fill a tank unattended. > Maybe it's country specific. Sounds like it. In every state in the US that I've been in in the last 20 years (which is about 1/3 of them), I've never encountered a pump without the latch. I think most people use the latch when filling up, even though they're present - it's just much more convenient to have the filling process automatically stop when the tank is full.
        pests 3y ago
        I detest the smell of gas so every excuse to not touch anything is great for me.
      - m-ee 3y ago
        Every station I see in California has them. Hawaii doesn’t for some reason.
- alwijrteilj 3y ago
  This is key. People don't care how long the total process takes. People care how much time they spend standing around with nothing to do, feeling bored. A 15minute charging stop can FEEL shorter than a 5minute gas stop if you have to stand there and hold the gas pump handle the entire time vs walking away from your car and going to buy a snack or (in the case of Tesla, this was a excellent idea and not just a silly easter egg) sitting in your car for 15minutes playing a video game. My wife and I will happily spend 30minutes playing with the music synthesizer in my Tesla and forget that we finished charging after 20minutes.
clouddrover 3y ago
> That, and the 400kW peak charging rate 400 kW chargers are already being deployed in Europe. Examples: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4 - https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-and-evbox-join-forces-to-install-one-of-the-first-400-kw-ev-fast-chargers-in-europe/ https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-and-evbox-join-forces... - https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-expands-into-denmark-and-wins-tender-to-build-3-new-fast-charging-stations-with-400-kw-chargers/ https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-expands-into-denmark-... Ionity's been installing 350 kW chargers for a long time and will start installing 400 kW chargers soon (like the Alpitronic HYC400). Some 720 kW capable chargers are beginning to be installed such as the Willbert Amber II: - https://www.willbert.tech/product/amber-ii-v2 https://www.willbert.tech/product/amber-ii-v2 - https://www.willbert.tech/blog/introducing-willbert-s-hub-testing-facility https://www.willbert.tech/blog/introducing-willbert-s-hub-te... The individual Amber II chargers are 360 kW but they can be paired to share power dynamically via a DC bus. In that configuration it can deliver a maximum of 720 kW to a single plug.

by kurthr 3y ago

matthewdgreen 3y ago

It's honestly hard to pull into a highway charging station and spend less than 10 minutes there, after 2.5 to 3 hours of driving. I've noticed that Tesla's Navigation seems to be optimizing for 10-15 minute stops, and I'm never finished in the rest stop by the time the car says it's ready to continue.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Yes, charging can be quicker than filling with gasoline. 15 minutes charging can be done in parallel with the rest stop. OTOH 5 minutes filling with gasoline is done in serial with a bathroom break and buying a coffee.
- nordsieck 3y ago
  > Yes, charging can be quicker than filling with gasoline. 15 minutes charging can be done in parallel with the rest stop. OTOH 5 minutes filling with gasoline is done in serial with a bathroom break and buying a coffee. I see people fill their tanks unattended all the time. Probably not a good idea, but it happens.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Filling unattended is illegal in many states.
    - nordsieck 3y ago
      > Filling unattended is illegal in many states. So is driving over the speed limit and rolling through stop signs. And yet, here we are.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    It's been years since I've encountered the required latch to fill a tank unattended. Maybe it's country specific.
    - tredre3 3y ago
      I've seen people jam their fuel cap in the handle to keep it latched. Probably illegal and against the rules of the station, but also probably not catastrophically dangerous.
    - nordsieck 3y ago
      > It's been years since I've encountered the required latch to fill a tank unattended. > Maybe it's country specific. Sounds like it. In every state in the US that I've been in in the last 20 years (which is about 1/3 of them), I've never encountered a pump without the latch. I think most people use the latch when filling up, even though they're present - it's just much more convenient to have the filling process automatically stop when the tank is full.
      - pests 3y ago
        I detest the smell of gas so every excuse to not touch anything is great for me.
    - m-ee 3y ago
      Every station I see in California has them. Hawaii doesn’t for some reason.
alwijrteilj 3y ago
This is key. People don't care how long the total process takes. People care how much time they spend standing around with nothing to do, feeling bored. A 15minute charging stop can FEEL shorter than a 5minute gas stop if you have to stand there and hold the gas pump handle the entire time vs walking away from your car and going to buy a snack or (in the case of Tesla, this was a excellent idea and not just a silly easter egg) sitting in your car for 15minutes playing a video game. My wife and I will happily spend 30minutes playing with the music synthesizer in my Tesla and forget that we finished charging after 20minutes.

clouddrover 3y ago

> That, and the 400kW peak charging rate 400 kW chargers are already being deployed in Europe. Examples: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2M5W6saAk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZWN_-a2j4 - https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-and-evbox-join-forces-to-install-one-of-the-first-400-kw-ev-fast-chargers-in-europe/ https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-and-evbox-join-forces... - https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-expands-into-denmark-and-wins-tender-to-build-3-new-fast-charging-stations-with-400-kw-chargers/ https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/fastned-expands-into-denmark-... Ionity's been installing 350 kW chargers for a long time and will start installing 400 kW chargers soon (like the Alpitronic HYC400). Some 720 kW capable chargers are beginning to be installed such as the Willbert Amber II: - https://www.willbert.tech/product/amber-ii-v2 https://www.willbert.tech/product/amber-ii-v2 - https://www.willbert.tech/blog/introducing-willbert-s-hub-testing-facility https://www.willbert.tech/blog/introducing-willbert-s-hub-te... The individual Amber II chargers are 360 kW but they can be paired to share power dynamically via a DC bus. In that configuration it can deliver a maximum of 720 kW to a single plug.