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Yes these are legitimately real problems in university education, and not always talked about openly: that optimizing for student learning is not necessarily a

by dahart 3y ago

Yes these are legitimately real problems in university education, and not always talked about openly: that optimizing for student learning is not necessarily a primary goal, that ‘weeder’ courses exist to dissuade some people from certain majors, and that some departments and some professors aren’t interested in training people for industry, but only for academic research. Some of that was going on in my undergrad program as well, and it has been shifting toward being more industry friendly over time.

OkayPhysicist 3y ago
Are weeder courses really a problem? Some students are just not capable at that moment to take certain degrees. Maybe it's a lack of preparation from highschool, in which case the student needs to take some remedial fundamentals, or maybe the student just simply isn't interested in the field they got in under, either because of parental pressure or a misunderstanding of what the field actually entails. Weeder courses signal to the students "Hey, if you're struggling in this class, it's not too late to switch majors". Every student "weeded out" frees up a disproportionate amount of resources for the rest of the students who are ready and willing to learn.
- dahart 3y ago
  There’s a valid case for them, I wasn’t claiming they don’t serve a purpose from the department or university perspective. But sometimes they are a real problem from the student’s perspective, especially when the class is made artificially difficult to pass, and this does happen. They are not always used to prune students who can’t handle a degree, they are sometimes used to limit enrollment in a program that doesn’t have enough capacity, which isn’t an issue with student preparation or capabilities.
ticviking 3y ago
On some level it does seem reasonable for Universities to pursue their own goals, and let industry find or sponsor some means of training their own workforce
inglor_cz 3y ago
I witnessed a situation when "surplus" physicists employed by the university were looking for some better justification of their employment and lobbied hard for extensive mandatory physics courses for maths and informatics majors. In the extent of, say, 20 % of the entire curriculum. Their proposals were beaten back, but it took a lot of effort. Czechia, 1998-1999. No tuition involved, study was still completely financed by the taxpayer.

by dahart 3y ago

OkayPhysicist 3y ago

Are weeder courses really a problem? Some students are just not capable at that moment to take certain degrees. Maybe it's a lack of preparation from highschool, in which case the student needs to take some remedial fundamentals, or maybe the student just simply isn't interested in the field they got in under, either because of parental pressure or a misunderstanding of what the field actually entails. Weeder courses signal to the students "Hey, if you're struggling in this class, it's not too late to switch majors". Every student "weeded out" frees up a disproportionate amount of resources for the rest of the students who are ready and willing to learn.

dahart 3y ago
There’s a valid case for them, I wasn’t claiming they don’t serve a purpose from the department or university perspective. But sometimes they are a real problem from the student’s perspective, especially when the class is made artificially difficult to pass, and this does happen. They are not always used to prune students who can’t handle a degree, they are sometimes used to limit enrollment in a program that doesn’t have enough capacity, which isn’t an issue with student preparation or capabilities.

ticviking 3y ago

On some level it does seem reasonable for Universities to pursue their own goals, and let industry find or sponsor some means of training their own workforce

inglor_cz 3y ago

I witnessed a situation when "surplus" physicists employed by the university were looking for some better justification of their employment and lobbied hard for extensive mandatory physics courses for maths and informatics majors. In the extent of, say, 20 % of the entire curriculum. Their proposals were beaten back, but it took a lot of effort. Czechia, 1998-1999. No tuition involved, study was still completely financed by the taxpayer.