4 ms·

At risk of making myself look like a loser, I'll share my experience. I have tried dating apps and occasionally get matches but it never really turns into anyt

by cedws 3y ago

At risk of making myself look like a loser, I'll share my experience. I have tried dating apps and occasionally get matches but it never really turns into anything. When you realise the girl on the other side has an abundance of men blowing up her phone with first messages, you realise it's hopeless. The usual advice is to date through your network of friends instead, but I'm a very solitary individual. I haven't got a network, I left school early. I tried building one, only to be shown disinterest. I don't have any opportunities to associate with other young people, I don't use social media, and I'm working all the time at a bank (not exactly an environment to fraternise in.) I understand the bitterness of incels, but in my opinion, it's misplaced. Us men would be just as picky if we had so much choice. I think the damage social media, dating apps, and COVID have done to the social fabric is beyond comprehension. I'm only 22 but have essentially given up. In a way, I can just move on with my life and accept what I can't change. In fact, the most frustrating part about it all is probably the vague "bro-advice" about "putting yourself out there." What does that even mean? I'm not a shut-in. I go to bars and nightclubs, I travel. Doesn't mean people want welcome some random dude into their circle.

mdrzn 3y ago
I'm 31 and I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you wrote.
ianai 3y ago
My experience and conclusions are very similar but different. I’m part of an increasingly forgotten subgeneration that graduated college and entered professional life in the Great Recession, amongst additional adversities. That makes me around 20 years your senior. I spent something like 4.5 years unemployed and seemingly unemployable. Now, I make a good six figure wage and my one and only goal is to never again experience anything like that. Doing that is all I could dream of for my life. And I agree in many ways-men would be as picky. No one owes anyone anything like intimacy. Stuff is frustrating and leads to the incel misplacent of their frustrations. Etc. Life and the universe have a very uncanny way of being especially cruel. So be kind to each other.
gizmo 3y ago
It's not hopeless. In fact, online dating is the most common path to finding a partner. That said, you have to set yourself apart somehow. Different for every individual, and it takes a serious amount of effort. But it's not impossible, and it's not hopeless, and it's not pointless, and I sympathize and understand why you currently feel that it is.
- c7DJTLrn 3y ago
  >In fact, online dating is the most common path to finding a partner. Yeah, and those people are on uppermost part of the attractiveness scale. If you're average or below, you're going to be spending a LOT of time and effort on an app just for a single date. Do you really want to be spending hours of your day rolling the dice to play a fundamentally rigged game? Even the algorithms of these apps have bias. If your profile isn't well received, it will simply be pushed to the bottom of the card stack, or never even be shown.
  - gizmo 3y ago
    You need every edge you can get. Great pictures, great bio, funny/interesting/engaging chat. Be in shape. Plan cool dates. Most guys who don't get anywhere with the apps have to 10x their effort. Maybe that feels unfair to you. But it's not unfair. Dating is extremely hard for people with disabilities or disfigurements. If that's you, I'm sorry. But if you're a regular guy in his 20s your dating pool is stupendously huge and the only thing holding you back is your attitude.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    I can think of two (2) married couples off of the top of my head who met through either Match.com or Tinder. And at least two more who met, dated for a while (1+ years), and split. I wouldn't describe any of of them as ugly, but most weren't on the "uppermost part of the attractiveness scale"
- throw9away6 3y ago
  I honestly think if online is your bet you should probably just pay an expert to setup an excellent profile. The amount of time you waste figuring out how to do it correctly you would be better off paying 5k or whatever to start correctly.
Qem 3y ago
If it doesn't make you uncomfortable, I'd like to know, how much siblings/cousins have you? I have the hypothesis shifting demographics made it harder for people to leverage their inner social circle to bootstrap relationships. Say, if the world averaged 3 children/couple, across 2 generations that means each grandchildren will have on average two siblings and six cousins. That is a solid baseline of socialization, through their extended family people would know more people. With 2 children/couple those numbers would fall to 1 and 2, and with 1 child/couple, to 0 and 0. People can compensate with other socialization sources, like school, but we and people we know there tend to move and drift away from each other. On the other hand, our relatives tend to stick in our lives, for better and worse.
opwieurposiu 3y ago
I solved this problem with one year of lifting weights and dancing lessons. About 2hr/day 6day/week time commitment. It is not quick or easy, but it is simple and very effective. When you have muscle, girls on the bus will come sit next to you and chat you up. They forgive you if you speak inelegantly. When you can dance your body language and posture will make people feel at ease. It was a strange experience for me as a nerd. Apps are a waste of time.
- wooque 3y ago
  Nope, there are no simple solutions. I have a friend who goes to gym and salsa lessons and still struggling. I'd say looks wise, face beauty is more important than body, and your social skills/charisma and more importantly your social status dominates everything.
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    You have to fish in the right pool for your skills and abilities. The generic advice is to just become a better product, which Is all fine and a good starting point but it’s also very hard and slow going. You are also probably never going to overcome genetics to a level where you can go anywhere and get any girl. You have to supplement by optimizing other factors. Change where you look based on your strengths, do things you dont really care for because there are opportunities to meet women. Go to gyms tailored to women instead of men. A bunch of little optimization that when coupled with 100s of attempts and 1000s of hours will yield positive results. That’s what hard work looks like, and what you have to do to overcome lack of natural talent.
tatrajim 3y ago
What worked for me was shaking things up greatly. I joined the Peace Corps, was forced to socialize with fellow volunteers, learn a new language, then daily interact with my new local colleagues, living in radically different surroundings. The combination pushed me out of my shell, gave me new confidence, helped me date attractive and interesting women, and led to a rewarding career and family life.
inglor_cz 3y ago
I am glad to be 45. Human attraction has so many dimensions, but online dating reduces them all to a bunch of photoshopped pictures in one fell swoop. I am an average guy (not ugly, but not handsome either, though I was fairly tall for the standards of my country in the 1990s), and most of my 'scores' could be traced towards an ability to make people laugh. Not everyone, of course, but "they say" that I have a dry sense of humor that is refreshing. Someone else "scores" on kindness, cute goofiness, elegance, ability to play the guitar, nice smell, the ability to listen, inner energy or peace etc. Nevertheless, you need real world conversations and events to deploy such "weapons". And in the world of 2023, where online apps tend to push out everything else, all those dimensions of attraction just go away. No wonder that the dating market is becoming "skewed" by such development.
yottron 3y ago
[dead]
throw9away6 3y ago
What does yourself out there mean? Basically that you have to work it like a job. You need to go out when to don’t feel like it, go do activities that maybe aren’t super interesting but have the right demographic. You also you have to sell yourself. It’s like working a sales position, you need to be starting conversations with strangers even though it feels weird, you need to be asking for numbers and following up dating is just another form of work. Read, do research, improve your product and try again, and again and again x1000. Also lower your standards in the beginning. if you are 22 and never been in a relationship you need to start somewhere and that would be with less beautiful women. Then if you keep practicing and building up skills you can date more attractive women.
jrnichols 3y ago
> When you realise the girl on the other side has an abundance of men blowing up her phone with first messages, you realise it's hopeless. The reality of online dating for women is that all you have to do is show up. yes, you will get a TON of messages. You'll have to sort through them. we know this. it's an entirely opposite experience for men. online dating is still geared towards separating them from money. I hope to never have to deal with it again, honestly. it's depressing.

by cedws 3y ago

mdrzn 3y ago

I'm 31 and I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you wrote.

ianai 3y ago

My experience and conclusions are very similar but different. I’m part of an increasingly forgotten subgeneration that graduated college and entered professional life in the Great Recession, amongst additional adversities. That makes me around 20 years your senior. I spent something like 4.5 years unemployed and seemingly unemployable. Now, I make a good six figure wage and my one and only goal is to never again experience anything like that. Doing that is all I could dream of for my life. And I agree in many ways-men would be as picky. No one owes anyone anything like intimacy. Stuff is frustrating and leads to the incel misplacent of their frustrations. Etc. Life and the universe have a very uncanny way of being especially cruel. So be kind to each other.

gizmo 3y ago

It's not hopeless. In fact, online dating is the most common path to finding a partner. That said, you have to set yourself apart somehow. Different for every individual, and it takes a serious amount of effort. But it's not impossible, and it's not hopeless, and it's not pointless, and I sympathize and understand why you currently feel that it is.

c7DJTLrn 3y ago
>In fact, online dating is the most common path to finding a partner. Yeah, and those people are on uppermost part of the attractiveness scale. If you're average or below, you're going to be spending a LOT of time and effort on an app just for a single date. Do you really want to be spending hours of your day rolling the dice to play a fundamentally rigged game? Even the algorithms of these apps have bias. If your profile isn't well received, it will simply be pushed to the bottom of the card stack, or never even be shown.
- gizmo 3y ago
  You need every edge you can get. Great pictures, great bio, funny/interesting/engaging chat. Be in shape. Plan cool dates. Most guys who don't get anywhere with the apps have to 10x their effort. Maybe that feels unfair to you. But it's not unfair. Dating is extremely hard for people with disabilities or disfigurements. If that's you, I'm sorry. But if you're a regular guy in his 20s your dating pool is stupendously huge and the only thing holding you back is your attitude.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  I can think of two (2) married couples off of the top of my head who met through either Match.com or Tinder. And at least two more who met, dated for a while (1+ years), and split. I wouldn't describe any of of them as ugly, but most weren't on the "uppermost part of the attractiveness scale"
throw9away6 3y ago
I honestly think if online is your bet you should probably just pay an expert to setup an excellent profile. The amount of time you waste figuring out how to do it correctly you would be better off paying 5k or whatever to start correctly.

Qem 3y ago

If it doesn't make you uncomfortable, I'd like to know, how much siblings/cousins have you? I have the hypothesis shifting demographics made it harder for people to leverage their inner social circle to bootstrap relationships. Say, if the world averaged 3 children/couple, across 2 generations that means each grandchildren will have on average two siblings and six cousins. That is a solid baseline of socialization, through their extended family people would know more people. With 2 children/couple those numbers would fall to 1 and 2, and with 1 child/couple, to 0 and 0. People can compensate with other socialization sources, like school, but we and people we know there tend to move and drift away from each other. On the other hand, our relatives tend to stick in our lives, for better and worse.

opwieurposiu 3y ago

I solved this problem with one year of lifting weights and dancing lessons. About 2hr/day 6day/week time commitment. It is not quick or easy, but it is simple and very effective. When you have muscle, girls on the bus will come sit next to you and chat you up. They forgive you if you speak inelegantly. When you can dance your body language and posture will make people feel at ease. It was a strange experience for me as a nerd. Apps are a waste of time.

wooque 3y ago
Nope, there are no simple solutions. I have a friend who goes to gym and salsa lessons and still struggling. I'd say looks wise, face beauty is more important than body, and your social skills/charisma and more importantly your social status dominates everything.
- throw9away6 3y ago
  You have to fish in the right pool for your skills and abilities. The generic advice is to just become a better product, which Is all fine and a good starting point but it’s also very hard and slow going. You are also probably never going to overcome genetics to a level where you can go anywhere and get any girl. You have to supplement by optimizing other factors. Change where you look based on your strengths, do things you dont really care for because there are opportunities to meet women. Go to gyms tailored to women instead of men. A bunch of little optimization that when coupled with 100s of attempts and 1000s of hours will yield positive results. That’s what hard work looks like, and what you have to do to overcome lack of natural talent.

tatrajim 3y ago

What worked for me was shaking things up greatly. I joined the Peace Corps, was forced to socialize with fellow volunteers, learn a new language, then daily interact with my new local colleagues, living in radically different surroundings. The combination pushed me out of my shell, gave me new confidence, helped me date attractive and interesting women, and led to a rewarding career and family life.

inglor_cz 3y ago

I am glad to be 45. Human attraction has so many dimensions, but online dating reduces them all to a bunch of photoshopped pictures in one fell swoop. I am an average guy (not ugly, but not handsome either, though I was fairly tall for the standards of my country in the 1990s), and most of my 'scores' could be traced towards an ability to make people laugh. Not everyone, of course, but "they say" that I have a dry sense of humor that is refreshing. Someone else "scores" on kindness, cute goofiness, elegance, ability to play the guitar, nice smell, the ability to listen, inner energy or peace etc. Nevertheless, you need real world conversations and events to deploy such "weapons". And in the world of 2023, where online apps tend to push out everything else, all those dimensions of attraction just go away. No wonder that the dating market is becoming "skewed" by such development.

yottron 3y ago

[dead]

throw9away6 3y ago

What does yourself out there mean? Basically that you have to work it like a job. You need to go out when to don’t feel like it, go do activities that maybe aren’t super interesting but have the right demographic. You also you have to sell yourself. It’s like working a sales position, you need to be starting conversations with strangers even though it feels weird, you need to be asking for numbers and following up dating is just another form of work. Read, do research, improve your product and try again, and again and again x1000. Also lower your standards in the beginning. if you are 22 and never been in a relationship you need to start somewhere and that would be with less beautiful women. Then if you keep practicing and building up skills you can date more attractive women.

jrnichols 3y ago

> When you realise the girl on the other side has an abundance of men blowing up her phone with first messages, you realise it's hopeless. The reality of online dating for women is that all you have to do is show up. yes, you will get a TON of messages. You'll have to sort through them. we know this. it's an entirely opposite experience for men. online dating is still geared towards separating them from money. I hope to never have to deal with it again, honestly. it's depressing.