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Funny, I remember the days when swedish biker gangs pillaged the cold war era reservist weapon depots to wage their gang wars, using weapons of war. No immigart

by hef19898 3y ago

Funny, I remember the days when swedish biker gangs pillaged the cold war era reservist weapon depots to wage their gang wars, using weapons of war. No immigartion was needed back then. But thanks for confirming that most right wing ideology is simply rooted in peoples incapability to cope with change.

Gud 3y ago
The biker wars had few victims, with 11 total deaths, all Nordic countries combined over multiple years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War Last year alone, Sweden had 60 shot dead. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-hits-record-with-60-shot-dead-2022-2022-12-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-hits-record-with... “Strommer said Sweden's sixty shooting deaths this year compared to four in Norway, four in Denmark and two in Finland. The deaths are the tip of an iceberg of violence and organised crime that have put down deep roots in parts of society, Strommer said. Last year, 45 people were shot dead in Sweden. In 2012, the total was 17, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention.” I cope well with change. I no longer live in Sweden but I still mourn what happened to my country and what could have been. So much wasted opportunity
- themitigating 3y ago
  Were those shootings by immigrants?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Qualified 'yes' - it's more due to recent changes in culture, Sweden has had immigrants for a long time. Mostly by younger (18 and under) swedes with no prospects thanks to increased economic kettling (segregation) being used by more established swedish criminal gangs as young hitters serve reduced time and are seen as disposable people. Driven by an increase in black market weapon availability and a criminal culture change away from shooting others in the leg and now shooting to kill. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyDZfYzVGJg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyDZfYzVGJg https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/segregation-behind-gang-related-shootings-bombings-in-sweden-expert/2801311 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/segregation-behind-gang-rela...
  - Gud 3y ago
    Yes, 2nd and 3rd generation.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      So, a problem of integration, and not necessarily one of, how did you put it, "mass migration from arab countries and africa". And those social problems, integration of new citizens and migrants, are much more complex than "stop migration". Because even if you did, what's next? Throwing all those people out that are already there? Also those born there (not just Sweden, in Germany it is the same, not to start with France), or just those without proper passports? Everyone, regardless of passport? Or, radical idea, just find a way to successfully integrate everyone in society, even if it means the existing society will have to change.
      - Gud 3y ago
        Another radical idea: don’t try to fit a square peg in a round hole. In which country has importing millions of uneducated people with a diametrically different culture actually worked out? I have lived in two highly functional multi cultural societies: Dubai(UAE) for two years, although predominantly muslim people from all over the planet seem to get more or less along. The Emiratis rule with an iron fist, and that seems to do the trick. You even think about joining a violent gang, you’re sent to some prison dungeon for years before being kicked out. Although I’m sure the same deal would work out well in Sweden which is in general also an authoritarian nation(although they prentend otherwise), I doubt this is what most proponents of multi culturalism envision. Now I live in Switzerland, a nation that has three distinct cultures for hundreds of years and seem to integrate foreigners from all over the world very well(though not without problems). The difference between Switzerland and Sweden/Germany/France is the system of direct democracy (where every poor decision can be quickly reverted), in general a bottom up decentralized approach and just as important, you have to QUALIFY YOURSELF to gain residence, and to gain citizenship is difficult(and can be revoked).
        hef19898 3y ago
        Wow, you bring up the UAE as good example? You are aware that they basically enslaving their non-domestic, unskilled workforce? If that is your understanding, or view, on human rights and diversity, well, we can stop here. Also, all rigjt wing people always bring up Switzerland and direct democracy up. Until, that is, the majority opposses whatever those right wingers want. Good luck in Switzerland so.

Gud 3y ago

The biker wars had few victims, with 11 total deaths, all Nordic countries combined over multiple years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War Last year alone, Sweden had 60 shot dead. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-hits-record-with-60-shot-dead-2022-2022-12-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-hits-record-with... “Strommer said Sweden's sixty shooting deaths this year compared to four in Norway, four in Denmark and two in Finland. The deaths are the tip of an iceberg of violence and organised crime that have put down deep roots in parts of society, Strommer said. Last year, 45 people were shot dead in Sweden. In 2012, the total was 17, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention.” I cope well with change. I no longer live in Sweden but I still mourn what happened to my country and what could have been. So much wasted opportunity

themitigating 3y ago
Were those shootings by immigrants?
- defrost 3y ago
  Qualified 'yes' - it's more due to recent changes in culture, Sweden has had immigrants for a long time. Mostly by younger (18 and under) swedes with no prospects thanks to increased economic kettling (segregation) being used by more established swedish criminal gangs as young hitters serve reduced time and are seen as disposable people. Driven by an increase in black market weapon availability and a criminal culture change away from shooting others in the leg and now shooting to kill. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyDZfYzVGJg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyDZfYzVGJg https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/segregation-behind-gang-related-shootings-bombings-in-sweden-expert/2801311 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/segregation-behind-gang-rela...
- Gud 3y ago
  Yes, 2nd and 3rd generation.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    So, a problem of integration, and not necessarily one of, how did you put it, "mass migration from arab countries and africa". And those social problems, integration of new citizens and migrants, are much more complex than "stop migration". Because even if you did, what's next? Throwing all those people out that are already there? Also those born there (not just Sweden, in Germany it is the same, not to start with France), or just those without proper passports? Everyone, regardless of passport? Or, radical idea, just find a way to successfully integrate everyone in society, even if it means the existing society will have to change.
    - Gud 3y ago
      Another radical idea: don’t try to fit a square peg in a round hole. In which country has importing millions of uneducated people with a diametrically different culture actually worked out? I have lived in two highly functional multi cultural societies: Dubai(UAE) for two years, although predominantly muslim people from all over the planet seem to get more or less along. The Emiratis rule with an iron fist, and that seems to do the trick. You even think about joining a violent gang, you’re sent to some prison dungeon for years before being kicked out. Although I’m sure the same deal would work out well in Sweden which is in general also an authoritarian nation(although they prentend otherwise), I doubt this is what most proponents of multi culturalism envision. Now I live in Switzerland, a nation that has three distinct cultures for hundreds of years and seem to integrate foreigners from all over the world very well(though not without problems). The difference between Switzerland and Sweden/Germany/France is the system of direct democracy (where every poor decision can be quickly reverted), in general a bottom up decentralized approach and just as important, you have to QUALIFY YOURSELF to gain residence, and to gain citizenship is difficult(and can be revoked).
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Wow, you bring up the UAE as good example? You are aware that they basically enslaving their non-domestic, unskilled workforce? If that is your understanding, or view, on human rights and diversity, well, we can stop here. Also, all rigjt wing people always bring up Switzerland and direct democracy up. Until, that is, the majority opposses whatever those right wingers want. Good luck in Switzerland so.