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Note that there's a difference between being a vegan and eating a plant-based diet. Being a vegan encompasses a plant-based diet but also includes things like a

Note that there's a difference between being a vegan and eating a plant-based diet. Being a vegan encompasses a plant-based diet but also includes things like animal rights participation and not using any products that were derived from animals such as fur, honey, etc. If you go to r/vegan, they'll downvote you if you're just plant-based dieting. I'm not a vegan. But I did go on a plant-based diet for a year. I felt great mentally, limited my acid reflux, lost some weight, and lowered my cholesterol. My motivation for doing it was personal health first. The fact that I wasn't eating any animals and helping the environment was a bonus. I'm no longer on a pure plant-based diet today due to the inconvenience such as social outings. In addition, a lot of plant-based food is actually more expensive than meat-based food, which was surprising to me. I guess our animal-based food making machine reached an economy of scale that surpasses even plants. I don't recommend that people cut out all meat full-stop. Instead, just cut out 20% first. Have a meat-free day each week. Then increase to 50% and then 80%, etc if you want to keep pushing yourself. I'm currently meatless for 50% of my meals. For me, it's a good balance between my goals and convenience. PS. It might feel strange not eating meat for a meal. I sure did. But after doing it for a while, the idea of eating meat felt strange and I felt disgusted at the thought of eating meat.

myshpa 3y ago
> meat making machine reached an economy of scale that surpasses even plants No, the problem is subsidies (and lobying). "The U.S government spends $38 billion each year to subsidize the meat and dairy industries, but only 0.04 percent of that (i.e., $17 million) each year to subsidize fruits and vegetables." (https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavingThePlanetSustainableMeatAlternatives.pdf https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavi... ) > a lot of plant-based food is actually more expensive than meat-based food Not if we're talking about whole foods ... vegan diets are the lowest priced diets in the high-income countries (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...). Relatively more expensive are processed plant-based replacements of meat & dairy - again the result of subsidies and economies of scale. The situation keeps getting better though ... with numbers of vegans increasing and production of these things being ramped up. > convenience Habit, tradition, convenience, taste. The only reasons that exist. We kill 90+ billion land animals and 1-3 trillion marine animals a year for no necessity. And we're not talking about biodiversity loss, environmental destruction, deforestation, pollution/eutrophication, health ... that seems like a big price for a mere convenience. > If you go to r/vegan, they'll downvote you if you're just plant-based dieting I don't agree with them on this, but their reason is "I'm currently meatless for 50% of my meals". Those who switch for ethical reasons are more unlikely to switch back.
- senttoschool 3y ago
  >Not if we're talking about whole foods ... vegan diets are the lowest priced diets in the high-income countries (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...). Relatively more expensive are processed plant-based replacements of meat & dairy - again the result of subsidies and economies of scale. The situation keeps getting better though ... with numbers of vegans increasing and production of these things being ramped up. I mostly eat out. I found it surprising that vegan restaurants of the same class often charge more than meat restaurants or vegan dishes cost more in the same restaurant. It's like vegan restaurants are trying to gouge consumers because they serve a more passionate audience. And I'm not talking about exotic plant-based burgers. I don't eat those. I'm just talking about dishes that just use plants - not fancy meat substitutes. In the article you linked to, it does say that the prices exclude eating out at restaurants. I think that realistically, eating a plant based diet IS more expensive on average. That has been my experience. Anyways, I hope it changes soon like you said. There's really no reason why the average plant-based meal should be more expensive than animal-based.
- senttoschool 3y ago
  One of the things that vegans do that turn off the general public is just how hostile they are. I get why they're so passionate. But to r/vegan, if you're not participating in animal rights protests and not using leather, you're just as bad as meat eaters. Quite honestly, it felt like a cult. This sort of behavior is counter productive in my opinion. It makes the general public hate vegans and think of them as lunatics. Most Redditors who go on a vegan diet will go to r/vegan first and that's where they will encounter a ton of hostility. I quickly left r/vegan and went to r/PlantBasedDiet where I was far more welcomed.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > Quite honestly, it felt like a cult. > I get why they're so passionate. Hm, it seems like it didn't "click" for you just yet. I'm in it for environmental reasons, something that's also frowned upon there. But that doesn't mean I don't understand their position. It's just something that can't be really described with words. You have to feel it ... or not ... but when you do, it changes you forever. Have you tried watching dominion and "best speech ever" ? https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxhL2lsgokY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxhL2lsgokY

myshpa 3y ago

> meat making machine reached an economy of scale that surpasses even plants No, the problem is subsidies (and lobying). "The U.S government spends $38 billion each year to subsidize the meat and dairy industries, but only 0.04 percent of that (i.e., $17 million) each year to subsidize fruits and vegetables." (https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavingThePlanetSustainableMeatAlternatives.pdf https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavi... ) > a lot of plant-based food is actually more expensive than meat-based food Not if we're talking about whole foods ... vegan diets are the lowest priced diets in the high-income countries (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...). Relatively more expensive are processed plant-based replacements of meat & dairy - again the result of subsidies and economies of scale. The situation keeps getting better though ... with numbers of vegans increasing and production of these things being ramped up. > convenience Habit, tradition, convenience, taste. The only reasons that exist. We kill 90+ billion land animals and 1-3 trillion marine animals a year for no necessity. And we're not talking about biodiversity loss, environmental destruction, deforestation, pollution/eutrophication, health ... that seems like a big price for a mere convenience. > If you go to r/vegan, they'll downvote you if you're just plant-based dieting I don't agree with them on this, but their reason is "I'm currently meatless for 50% of my meals". Those who switch for ethical reasons are more unlikely to switch back.

senttoschool 3y ago
>Not if we're talking about whole foods ... vegan diets are the lowest priced diets in the high-income countries (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea...). Relatively more expensive are processed plant-based replacements of meat & dairy - again the result of subsidies and economies of scale. The situation keeps getting better though ... with numbers of vegans increasing and production of these things being ramped up. I mostly eat out. I found it surprising that vegan restaurants of the same class often charge more than meat restaurants or vegan dishes cost more in the same restaurant. It's like vegan restaurants are trying to gouge consumers because they serve a more passionate audience. And I'm not talking about exotic plant-based burgers. I don't eat those. I'm just talking about dishes that just use plants - not fancy meat substitutes. In the article you linked to, it does say that the prices exclude eating out at restaurants. I think that realistically, eating a plant based diet IS more expensive on average. That has been my experience. Anyways, I hope it changes soon like you said. There's really no reason why the average plant-based meal should be more expensive than animal-based.
senttoschool 3y ago
One of the things that vegans do that turn off the general public is just how hostile they are. I get why they're so passionate. But to r/vegan, if you're not participating in animal rights protests and not using leather, you're just as bad as meat eaters. Quite honestly, it felt like a cult. This sort of behavior is counter productive in my opinion. It makes the general public hate vegans and think of them as lunatics. Most Redditors who go on a vegan diet will go to r/vegan first and that's where they will encounter a ton of hostility. I quickly left r/vegan and went to r/PlantBasedDiet where I was far more welcomed.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > Quite honestly, it felt like a cult. > I get why they're so passionate. Hm, it seems like it didn't "click" for you just yet. I'm in it for environmental reasons, something that's also frowned upon there. But that doesn't mean I don't understand their position. It's just something that can't be really described with words. You have to feel it ... or not ... but when you do, it changes you forever. Have you tried watching dominion and "best speech ever" ? https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxhL2lsgokY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxhL2lsgokY