8 ms·

> we’re not seeing toddlers around the world have kidney problems is it possible that then we don't fully understand the resilience of the human body? It is ce

> we’re not seeing toddlers around the world have kidney problems is it possible that then we don't fully understand the resilience of the human body? It is certainly possible, when the article can state that: > the health effects of consuming micro- and nanoplastics remain unclear

teekert 3y ago
We are seeing a steady increase in childhood cancer [0] and our male population now has half the sperm count the same population had in 70s [1]. [0]: https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhood-cancer-australia-1983-2015-and-projections-2035 https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhoo... [1]: https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testosterone-levels-falling.html https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testo...
- tremon 3y ago
  The OP was walking about kidney damage specifically. Have these cancers and sperm quality issues been linked to kidney function?
- XorNot 3y ago
  Overweight and obese men are more likely to have lowered sperm counts[1] and obesity has tripled since 1970[2]. [1] https://www.healthymale.org.au/news/obesity-overweight-can-impact-male-fertility https://www.healthymale.org.au/news/obesity-overweight-can-i... [2] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and...
  - veave 3y ago
    Surely it cannot be that hard to control for weight when doing a study on testosterone amounts in the body? i.e. we have half the sperm, but that's overall - do people who have a healthy weight also have half the sperm?
    - sfn42 3y ago
      These are the problems that arise when everyone and their moms start talking about scientific studies this way. We don't have enough information. We don't know how they collected their data, we don't know how they analyzed it, even if we did most of us don't know enough to judge those methods etc. Most "science" is honestly worthless crap done by some random person mainly because they want a PhD or are trying to pad their publication count. They look for some arbitrary thing to test, half-assedly design a study, collect as little data as they can get away with, do a little p-hacking and such to make sure the results are significant (otherwise the time was wasted) then they publish.
  - foobiekr 3y ago
    Have you considered that you are simply listing two symptoms together instead of identifying cause and effect?
    - XorNot 3y ago
      The average American consumes 23% more calories per day in 2010 then in 1970[1] and does 100 calories less physical activity per day in their occupation since 1960[2]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/12/13/whats-on-your-table-how-americas-diet-has-changed-over-the-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/12/13/whats-on-... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3102055/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3102055/
      - foobiekr 3y ago
        Have you considered that this is the _symptom_?
- y7 3y ago
  Those things could be related to any change in society. There's nothing to suggest it's plastics in particular, right?
  - iforgotpassword 3y ago
    Right, but is your suggestion to say "business as usual" until we have definite irrefutable proof for each and everything? I have no idea how likely or unlikely it is that having plastic in our bodies has any negative impact whatsoever, but that doesn't mean I can't still try to reduce the risk of accumulating more of it in my body. As with most things in life it's a tradeoff, with convenience mostly. I don't have pans with teflon anymore. I avoid plastic bottles for beverages, which means I almost never drink any soda. I got rid of almost all my Tupperware and use paper bags or boxes made of steel when possible. And even though I grew up using the microwave a lot as a teen, I somehow ended up never owning one myself after moving out. Yet for some reason I still managed to survive.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    If it isn't plastic then what is it? We have been steadily identifying and reducing the number of toxic agents the public is exposed to. Fifty years ago in the 70s the average person would have regular exposure to lead gas, lead paint, tobacco smoke (even if they didn't smoke themselves - indoor smoking was still legal), potent pesticides, and maybe even asbestos. But there were far fewer everyday plastics at the time.
    - mrob 3y ago
      I suspect improvements in communications media. Every day, the average man sees many other men who out-compete him, with no hope of that ever changing. He sees men who are richer, taller, stronger, smarter, etc., in ever increasing realism and "engagement". Beating them is impossible, so the correct strategy in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness would be social submission and hoping they are generous. It seems plausible that there's some biological mechanism that lowers testosterone to aid this process.
      - 3y ago

teekert 3y ago

We are seeing a steady increase in childhood cancer [0] and our male population now has half the sperm count the same population had in 70s [1]. [0]: https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhood-cancer-australia-1983-2015-and-projections-2035 https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhoo... [1]: https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testosterone-levels-falling.html https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testo...

tremon 3y ago
The OP was walking about kidney damage specifically. Have these cancers and sperm quality issues been linked to kidney function?
XorNot 3y ago
Overweight and obese men are more likely to have lowered sperm counts[1] and obesity has tripled since 1970[2]. [1] https://www.healthymale.org.au/news/obesity-overweight-can-impact-male-fertility https://www.healthymale.org.au/news/obesity-overweight-can-i... [2] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and...
- veave 3y ago
  Surely it cannot be that hard to control for weight when doing a study on testosterone amounts in the body? i.e. we have half the sperm, but that's overall - do people who have a healthy weight also have half the sperm?
  - sfn42 3y ago
    These are the problems that arise when everyone and their moms start talking about scientific studies this way. We don't have enough information. We don't know how they collected their data, we don't know how they analyzed it, even if we did most of us don't know enough to judge those methods etc. Most "science" is honestly worthless crap done by some random person mainly because they want a PhD or are trying to pad their publication count. They look for some arbitrary thing to test, half-assedly design a study, collect as little data as they can get away with, do a little p-hacking and such to make sure the results are significant (otherwise the time was wasted) then they publish.
- foobiekr 3y ago
  Have you considered that you are simply listing two symptoms together instead of identifying cause and effect?
  - XorNot 3y ago
    The average American consumes 23% more calories per day in 2010 then in 1970[1] and does 100 calories less physical activity per day in their occupation since 1960[2]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/12/13/whats-on-your-table-how-americas-diet-has-changed-over-the-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/12/13/whats-on-... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3102055/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3102055/
    - foobiekr 3y ago
      Have you considered that this is the _symptom_?
y7 3y ago
Those things could be related to any change in society. There's nothing to suggest it's plastics in particular, right?
- iforgotpassword 3y ago
  Right, but is your suggestion to say "business as usual" until we have definite irrefutable proof for each and everything? I have no idea how likely or unlikely it is that having plastic in our bodies has any negative impact whatsoever, but that doesn't mean I can't still try to reduce the risk of accumulating more of it in my body. As with most things in life it's a tradeoff, with convenience mostly. I don't have pans with teflon anymore. I avoid plastic bottles for beverages, which means I almost never drink any soda. I got rid of almost all my Tupperware and use paper bags or boxes made of steel when possible. And even though I grew up using the microwave a lot as a teen, I somehow ended up never owning one myself after moving out. Yet for some reason I still managed to survive.
- flangola7 3y ago
  If it isn't plastic then what is it? We have been steadily identifying and reducing the number of toxic agents the public is exposed to. Fifty years ago in the 70s the average person would have regular exposure to lead gas, lead paint, tobacco smoke (even if they didn't smoke themselves - indoor smoking was still legal), potent pesticides, and maybe even asbestos. But there were far fewer everyday plastics at the time.
  - mrob 3y ago
    I suspect improvements in communications media. Every day, the average man sees many other men who out-compete him, with no hope of that ever changing. He sees men who are richer, taller, stronger, smarter, etc., in ever increasing realism and "engagement". Beating them is impossible, so the correct strategy in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness would be social submission and hoping they are generous. It seems plausible that there's some biological mechanism that lowers testosterone to aid this process.
    - 3y ago