3 ms·

It seems like the answer based on this article is "pretty good." The evidence in favor of this is his paper on collapsing stars causing black holes (which the a

It seems like the answer based on this article is "pretty good." The evidence in favor of this is his paper on collapsing stars causing black holes (which the author suggests would have won him a Nobel Prize in other circumstances) and that he was the conceptual designer for the bomb itself. That's a pretty good case in my book.

defrost 3y ago
Good physicist - yes, no question. Head of the program that implemented a conceptual design, yes, no question. > he was the conceptual designer for the bomb itself. Very questionable. It took multiple attempts by the MAUD committee to convince both US DoD and US physicists that an atomic bomb was even possible let alone feasible (ie practical to build (just) and affordable (just)). After ignoring several letters, including one from Einstein, it took a personal visit from the Australian physicist Mark Oliphant to campaign at the DoD and to then walk Oppenheimer through the Frisch–Peierls memorandum (students of Oliphant) and convince Oppenheimer to run the calculations on a compressed spherical ball of uranium isotopes (seperated by a process developed by Oliphant) himself. It's a rarely taught and oft forgotten piece of nuclear history that the impetus and conceptual design for the Manhatten project originated from non US citizens outside of the USofA.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kirse 3y ago
  It's a rarely taught and oft forgotten piece of nuclear history that the impetus and conceptual design for the Manhatten project originated from non US citizens outside of the USofA. Is it really forgotten? It's pretty well known that Operation Paperclip shoveled loads of foreign scientists into the USA. Hans Bethe, the Teller-Ulam design etc. all created by immigrants. The original a-bomb memorandum was all foreign. Much of the USA's present technical superiority is due to the massive brain drain during WW2, I think most reasonably informed folks understand that the USA is largely a country of immigrants united by ideals under one banner, not a homogeneous people group.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Outside of STEM educated | aware people? I'd say rarely taught in the USofA - I dare say a vox pop person on the street interview might struggle to find someone that can name three countries starting with the letter U let alone name 5 Manhatten project nuclear scientists (that haven't had recent big budget movies made about them). > It's pretty well known that Operation Paperclip shoveled loads of foreign scientists into the USA Case in point really * A: I mention that it's relatively unknown that during WWII before the start of the Manhatten project the MAUD committe spelled out that an atomic weapon was feasible and game planned a design. * B: You respond that it's actually really well known that after WWII scientists flooded into the USofA from Europe (and a number from Nazi rocket and other projects). It's not clear how B bears on A.
    - kirse 3y ago
      B was primarily an appeal to refute the sentiment I felt reading your comment, which seemed to be passive-aggressively critical of the USA. My assumption is that your frequent misspelling of "Manhattan" and usage of the term "USofA" is that you're not a US citizen. So as a US citizen, I wanted to encourage you that most of us with a decent high school education do consciously/subconsciously understand that this whole country is based on immigration, and much of our WW2 STEM advancements were achieved by the sweat and blood of immigrants and foreigners (at that time).
    - serf 3y ago
      You're right a bit on A, but not for the reasons you state. US education has trouble teaching about the environments/state-of-affairs/'climate' that lead to a historical event; they tend to focus on the event itself almost primarily. So, while I might easily give you 5 'Manhattan-project' associated scientist names from my US education -- many people could -- I do have trouble recounting the specific discoveries/test/discussions/meetings/collaborations/etc that lead up to each small accomplishment that was then later poured into the Manhattan Project -- and I think that that's understandable; a public education is incomplete -- too much stuff needs to be done, and the student has a small expectation to further their own studies and complete the picture. It's also a matter of regional public education and the biases present. Japanese education tends to minimize the scientific achievement of the Manhattan Project; American text-books tend to minimize our loss in Vietnam -- it would be entirely unsurprising to me if your local regional education system focused on the collaboration and contribution to the (very-early) not-Manhattan Project if it represents a facet of local culture that provides pride in the accomplishment. American culture is pretty obviously proud of the Manhattan Project results, so we hear more about our personal contributions than we hear about other groups roles; it seems perfectly obvious to me -- and it seems like exactly the same scenario abroad; pride in the local accomplishments that contributed to The Bomb.
adrian_b 3y ago
While Oppenheimer's work was an important milestone on the road towards the modern theory of black holes, it should not be forgotten that the existence of black holes had already been predicted by John Michell in November 1784, more than a century and a half before Oppenheimer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Michell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Michell Until the first experimental evidence for black holes, none of the continuously improving theories about them were taken seriously, because they were based on extrapolations of the known physics laws outside their known domain of validity, and in physics extrapolations may always fail.

defrost 3y ago

Good physicist - yes, no question. Head of the program that implemented a conceptual design, yes, no question. > he was the conceptual designer for the bomb itself. Very questionable. It took multiple attempts by the MAUD committee to convince both US DoD and US physicists that an atomic bomb was even possible let alone feasible (ie practical to build (just) and affordable (just)). After ignoring several letters, including one from Einstein, it took a personal visit from the Australian physicist Mark Oliphant to campaign at the DoD and to then walk Oppenheimer through the Frisch–Peierls memorandum (students of Oliphant) and convince Oppenheimer to run the calculations on a compressed spherical ball of uranium isotopes (seperated by a process developed by Oliphant) himself. It's a rarely taught and oft forgotten piece of nuclear history that the impetus and conceptual design for the Manhatten project originated from non US citizens outside of the USofA.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kirse 3y ago
It's a rarely taught and oft forgotten piece of nuclear history that the impetus and conceptual design for the Manhatten project originated from non US citizens outside of the USofA. Is it really forgotten? It's pretty well known that Operation Paperclip shoveled loads of foreign scientists into the USA. Hans Bethe, the Teller-Ulam design etc. all created by immigrants. The original a-bomb memorandum was all foreign. Much of the USA's present technical superiority is due to the massive brain drain during WW2, I think most reasonably informed folks understand that the USA is largely a country of immigrants united by ideals under one banner, not a homogeneous people group.
- defrost 3y ago
  Outside of STEM educated | aware people? I'd say rarely taught in the USofA - I dare say a vox pop person on the street interview might struggle to find someone that can name three countries starting with the letter U let alone name 5 Manhatten project nuclear scientists (that haven't had recent big budget movies made about them). > It's pretty well known that Operation Paperclip shoveled loads of foreign scientists into the USA Case in point really * A: I mention that it's relatively unknown that during WWII before the start of the Manhatten project the MAUD committe spelled out that an atomic weapon was feasible and game planned a design. * B: You respond that it's actually really well known that after WWII scientists flooded into the USofA from Europe (and a number from Nazi rocket and other projects). It's not clear how B bears on A.
  - kirse 3y ago
    B was primarily an appeal to refute the sentiment I felt reading your comment, which seemed to be passive-aggressively critical of the USA. My assumption is that your frequent misspelling of "Manhattan" and usage of the term "USofA" is that you're not a US citizen. So as a US citizen, I wanted to encourage you that most of us with a decent high school education do consciously/subconsciously understand that this whole country is based on immigration, and much of our WW2 STEM advancements were achieved by the sweat and blood of immigrants and foreigners (at that time).
  - serf 3y ago
    You're right a bit on A, but not for the reasons you state. US education has trouble teaching about the environments/state-of-affairs/'climate' that lead to a historical event; they tend to focus on the event itself almost primarily. So, while I might easily give you 5 'Manhattan-project' associated scientist names from my US education -- many people could -- I do have trouble recounting the specific discoveries/test/discussions/meetings/collaborations/etc that lead up to each small accomplishment that was then later poured into the Manhattan Project -- and I think that that's understandable; a public education is incomplete -- too much stuff needs to be done, and the student has a small expectation to further their own studies and complete the picture. It's also a matter of regional public education and the biases present. Japanese education tends to minimize the scientific achievement of the Manhattan Project; American text-books tend to minimize our loss in Vietnam -- it would be entirely unsurprising to me if your local regional education system focused on the collaboration and contribution to the (very-early) not-Manhattan Project if it represents a facet of local culture that provides pride in the accomplishment. American culture is pretty obviously proud of the Manhattan Project results, so we hear more about our personal contributions than we hear about other groups roles; it seems perfectly obvious to me -- and it seems like exactly the same scenario abroad; pride in the local accomplishments that contributed to The Bomb.

adrian_b 3y ago

While Oppenheimer's work was an important milestone on the road towards the modern theory of black holes, it should not be forgotten that the existence of black holes had already been predicted by John Michell in November 1784, more than a century and a half before Oppenheimer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Michell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Michell Until the first experimental evidence for black holes, none of the continuously improving theories about them were taken seriously, because they were based on extrapolations of the known physics laws outside their known domain of validity, and in physics extrapolations may always fail.