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This is just plain wrong. Web Components work in every browser that matters. They are standard DOM elements and can be written in plain HTML server-side or via

This is just plain wrong. Web Components work in every browser that matters. They are standard DOM elements and can be written in plain HTML server-side or via legacy front-end libraries. I'm using web components in production to help interoperability between 2012 era Handlebars/jQuery/Backbone and modern tools like React and Prosemirror.

superkuh 3y ago
>Web Components work in every browser that matters. Reading between the lines here I'm getting the feel that this is actually, "Web Components work in every browser that people use to spend money." And I don't disagree. If you're doing something for work and being paid to do it then by all means use web components. The large number of people around the world you exclude weren't part of the demographic you were going to get money from. But saying that it works in every browser that matters is wrong.
- spankalee 3y ago
  What browsers do web components not work in that you would like to see support them? I think "every browser that matters" means, yes they don't work in IE or legacy Edge, and maybe don't work in Servo or Ladybird, but they work in Firefox, Edge, Chrome, Safari, Opera, etc. https://caniuse.com/custom-elementsv1 https://caniuse.com/custom-elementsv1
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    Sorry, I responded to the wrong person.
    - colordrops 3y ago
      web components are standard, and have been for a long while. Virtually no one uses lynx, and it's not anyone else's fault that lynx has lagged on implementing long-existing web standards.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        If anyone gets here confused, I left this comment above because I mistook who I was replying to: I’m curious: does it work in Lynx[0]? I assume no because there’s no executed javascript, which is required to register the component as far as I know. It’s worth stating the point in a different way. Even one person using such a browser “matters”, in a way, and it’s good to be kind when one can. (Apologies if this comes off as harsh; however, it does seem to me that the other commenter has a point, at least in their second comment.) 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) ---- “Virtually no one” does sound a lot like someone. Per this point of “browsers that matter”, many people will also say “accessibility matters”. Support of Lynx is a worthwhile goal in regard to web accessibility, in no small part because it does not execute javascript.
  - cutler 3y ago
    Safari seems to have a caveat.
    - troupo 3y ago
      The "caveat" is that Safari doesn't and will not allow subclassing built-in components. Note that Safari has opposed subclassing built-in components since the very beginning: https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecomment-224212371 https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecommen... Just a few of the reasons: https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecomment-230700060 https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecommen...
      - cutler 3y ago
        Looks like a won't-fix stalemate so why the hype about web components?
        troupo 3y ago
        Because it was pushed and is being pushed primarily by Google and its devrels. After 12 years in development they are barely usable, have a ton of issues that are not resolved [1] and [2], and any client library in the same state would be laughed out of the room by anyone. However, there are now hundreds of millions of dollars of sunk costs, dozens and dozens of specs, unbelievable complexity that infects all other actually useful specs (like Scoped CSS which cannot proceed properly because effing Shadow DOM), extreme zealotry and complete unwillingness to engage with anyone even mildly critical of web components. All this results in a strong desire to keep going and promoting this even if no one can even say what the "done" state is for them. Or what is the actual goal, since that goal changes every few months. [1] https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1198332398561353728 https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1198332398561353728 None of these have any satisfactory solution (for some not even on the horizon) [2] Even the people pushing this stuff realise how many issues they have: https://w3c.github.io/webcomponents-cg/2022.html https://w3c.github.io/webcomponents-cg/2022.html See how many of those are not even close to even being discussed
fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
Until you want to make a form. Look at ING's Lion components or Microsoft's Fast components. Thousands of lines of code to make form/input/button components work as you'd expect them to. General browser support is good though. Debugging ShadyCSS in IE11 was a nightmare.

superkuh 3y ago

>Web Components work in every browser that matters. Reading between the lines here I'm getting the feel that this is actually, "Web Components work in every browser that people use to spend money." And I don't disagree. If you're doing something for work and being paid to do it then by all means use web components. The large number of people around the world you exclude weren't part of the demographic you were going to get money from. But saying that it works in every browser that matters is wrong.

spankalee 3y ago
What browsers do web components not work in that you would like to see support them? I think "every browser that matters" means, yes they don't work in IE or legacy Edge, and maybe don't work in Servo or Ladybird, but they work in Firefox, Edge, Chrome, Safari, Opera, etc. https://caniuse.com/custom-elementsv1 https://caniuse.com/custom-elementsv1
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  Sorry, I responded to the wrong person.
  - colordrops 3y ago
    web components are standard, and have been for a long while. Virtually no one uses lynx, and it's not anyone else's fault that lynx has lagged on implementing long-existing web standards.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      If anyone gets here confused, I left this comment above because I mistook who I was replying to: I’m curious: does it work in Lynx[0]? I assume no because there’s no executed javascript, which is required to register the component as far as I know. It’s worth stating the point in a different way. Even one person using such a browser “matters”, in a way, and it’s good to be kind when one can. (Apologies if this comes off as harsh; however, it does seem to me that the other commenter has a point, at least in their second comment.) 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) ---- “Virtually no one” does sound a lot like someone. Per this point of “browsers that matter”, many people will also say “accessibility matters”. Support of Lynx is a worthwhile goal in regard to web accessibility, in no small part because it does not execute javascript.
- cutler 3y ago
  Safari seems to have a caveat.
  - troupo 3y ago
    The "caveat" is that Safari doesn't and will not allow subclassing built-in components. Note that Safari has opposed subclassing built-in components since the very beginning: https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecomment-224212371 https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecommen... Just a few of the reasons: https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecomment-230700060 https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/509#issuecommen...
    - cutler 3y ago
      Looks like a won't-fix stalemate so why the hype about web components?
      - troupo 3y ago
        Because it was pushed and is being pushed primarily by Google and its devrels. After 12 years in development they are barely usable, have a ton of issues that are not resolved [1] and [2], and any client library in the same state would be laughed out of the room by anyone. However, there are now hundreds of millions of dollars of sunk costs, dozens and dozens of specs, unbelievable complexity that infects all other actually useful specs (like Scoped CSS which cannot proceed properly because effing Shadow DOM), extreme zealotry and complete unwillingness to engage with anyone even mildly critical of web components. All this results in a strong desire to keep going and promoting this even if no one can even say what the "done" state is for them. Or what is the actual goal, since that goal changes every few months. [1] https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1198332398561353728 https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1198332398561353728 None of these have any satisfactory solution (for some not even on the horizon) [2] Even the people pushing this stuff realise how many issues they have: https://w3c.github.io/webcomponents-cg/2022.html https://w3c.github.io/webcomponents-cg/2022.html See how many of those are not even close to even being discussed

fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago

Until you want to make a form. Look at ING's Lion components or Microsoft's Fast components. Thousands of lines of code to make form/input/button components work as you'd expect them to. General browser support is good though. Debugging ShadyCSS in IE11 was a nightmare.