5 ms·

There are still almost 5k banks in the US. Unlike Zelle, if this opens to all of them, all you need is one bank.

evantbyrne 3y ago
I presume the system uses bank account and routing numbers? So besides concerns with sharing that information with the public, concerned citizens will figure out who they bank with, and will most likely be able to easily pressure the bank to drop them. Certain things should be difficult to accomplish in a functional society anyways, and administering a profitable hate group is one of those things. If not bankrupted by their lack of credit card access, they'll eventually run into legal troubles from the damage they cause to innocent people.
- salawat 3y ago
  I'm sure British loyalists circa 1776 would have agreed with you.
  - evantbyrne 3y ago
    Nonsense comparison. We're talking about business partnerships. If everyone with a shred of decency turns your organization away, that's a great litmus test for its existence. Worry about the next revolution being banked when that becomes a real concern, not over an online troll farm that tries to convince vulnerable people to end their lives.
    - polski-g 3y ago
      Just like how Ellen Degeneres was deplatformed in 1997 for being undecent. Great point!
      - evantbyrne 3y ago
        Ellen is of course always top of mind for me.
        1000bestlives 3y ago
        There's not much in there anyway
- docmars 3y ago
  >concerned citizens will figure out who they bank with, and will most likely be able to easily pressure the bank to drop them This should be difficult to accomplish in a functional society.
- cempaka 3y ago
  > they'll eventually run into legal troubles from the damage they cause to innocent people Which is how this sort of thing ought to be handled, in stark contrast to "Chrystia Freeland sends an email to the heads of major banks to get troublemakers debanked with zero transparency or due process."
  - evantbyrne 3y ago
    Like the person I was responding to said, there are thousands of banks. If not a single one wants to do business with this organization, that's not a first amendment issue and you don't need to lose sleep over it. Being so unpopular that nobody with a shred of decency will do business with them is not a rights issue.
    - pas 3y ago
      maybe. maybe not. it's definitely not this simple. those thousands of banks likely share back office software, many fraud prevention vendors, background check provider. and yes, sure kiwi farms can simply accept checks or whatever. it doesn't change the simple truth, that there are many things the current economic system doesn't provide despite extant demand and profit opportunity. transactions cost are too damn high.
      - evantbyrne 3y ago
        > maybe. maybe not. it's definitely not this simple. those thousands of banks likely share back office software, many fraud prevention vendors, background check provider. My attorney also advises a local credit union, and has shared some insight in the past with me on the complexity of agreements they have with vendors. I don't think it's a realistic concern that X vendor denouncing Y hate group would cascade down into a bank being forced to drop them. Agreements are just so complex and the financial incentive wouldn't be there to justify such a high risk demand. It's all too hypothetical to worry about. > and yes, sure kiwi farms can simply accept checks or whatever. it doesn't change the simple truth, that there are many things the current economic system doesn't provide despite extant demand and profit opportunity. transactions cost are too damn high. Absolutely. Cash still exists. Marijuana shops near me are able to operate profitably without credit card processing. It's also great that online payments in the US banking system are finally being improved.
- subsistence234 3y ago
  they're not a "hate group," they're a "collecting embarrassing info on creeps" group. of course the creeps aren't happy about that, and frame it as "hate."
- 1000bestlives 3y ago
  Nobody on KF is innocent. You talk like someone who has a thread about them
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mattwilsonn888 3y ago
One low quality bank? Bank gets bailed out? That's a dire sign for the fundamental value of the dollar to regular people if this is a regular practice. Bank gets bought up? Well we don't really have 5k banks anymore do we?
- astrange 3y ago
  > Bank gets bailed out? That's a dire sign for the fundamental value of the dollar to regular people if this is a regular practice. "Our insurance system works" is not a bad sign for your financial system.

I presume the system uses bank account and routing numbers? So besides concerns with sharing that information with the public, concerned citizens will figure out who they bank with, and will most likely be able to easily pressure the bank to drop them. Certain things should be difficult to accomplish in a functional society anyways, and administering a profitable hate group is one of those things. If not bankrupted by their lack of credit card access, they'll eventually run into legal troubles from the damage they cause to innocent people.

salawat 3y ago
I'm sure British loyalists circa 1776 would have agreed with you.
- evantbyrne 3y ago
  Nonsense comparison. We're talking about business partnerships. If everyone with a shred of decency turns your organization away, that's a great litmus test for its existence. Worry about the next revolution being banked when that becomes a real concern, not over an online troll farm that tries to convince vulnerable people to end their lives.
  - polski-g 3y ago
    Just like how Ellen Degeneres was deplatformed in 1997 for being undecent. Great point!
    - evantbyrne 3y ago
      Ellen is of course always top of mind for me.
      - 1000bestlives 3y ago
        There's not much in there anyway
docmars 3y ago
>concerned citizens will figure out who they bank with, and will most likely be able to easily pressure the bank to drop them This should be difficult to accomplish in a functional society.
cempaka 3y ago
> they'll eventually run into legal troubles from the damage they cause to innocent people Which is how this sort of thing ought to be handled, in stark contrast to "Chrystia Freeland sends an email to the heads of major banks to get troublemakers debanked with zero transparency or due process."
- evantbyrne 3y ago
  Like the person I was responding to said, there are thousands of banks. If not a single one wants to do business with this organization, that's not a first amendment issue and you don't need to lose sleep over it. Being so unpopular that nobody with a shred of decency will do business with them is not a rights issue.
  - pas 3y ago
    maybe. maybe not. it's definitely not this simple. those thousands of banks likely share back office software, many fraud prevention vendors, background check provider. and yes, sure kiwi farms can simply accept checks or whatever. it doesn't change the simple truth, that there are many things the current economic system doesn't provide despite extant demand and profit opportunity. transactions cost are too damn high.
    - evantbyrne 3y ago
      > maybe. maybe not. it's definitely not this simple. those thousands of banks likely share back office software, many fraud prevention vendors, background check provider. My attorney also advises a local credit union, and has shared some insight in the past with me on the complexity of agreements they have with vendors. I don't think it's a realistic concern that X vendor denouncing Y hate group would cascade down into a bank being forced to drop them. Agreements are just so complex and the financial incentive wouldn't be there to justify such a high risk demand. It's all too hypothetical to worry about. > and yes, sure kiwi farms can simply accept checks or whatever. it doesn't change the simple truth, that there are many things the current economic system doesn't provide despite extant demand and profit opportunity. transactions cost are too damn high. Absolutely. Cash still exists. Marijuana shops near me are able to operate profitably without credit card processing. It's also great that online payments in the US banking system are finally being improved.
subsistence234 3y ago
they're not a "hate group," they're a "collecting embarrassing info on creeps" group. of course the creeps aren't happy about that, and frame it as "hate."
1000bestlives 3y ago
Nobody on KF is innocent. You talk like someone who has a thread about them
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mattwilsonn888 3y ago

One low quality bank? Bank gets bailed out? That's a dire sign for the fundamental value of the dollar to regular people if this is a regular practice. Bank gets bought up? Well we don't really have 5k banks anymore do we?

astrange 3y ago
> Bank gets bailed out? That's a dire sign for the fundamental value of the dollar to regular people if this is a regular practice. "Our insurance system works" is not a bad sign for your financial system.