4 ms·

I think the push to fab SCs in the US is going to quickly run up against the fact that consumer technology pricing is incompatible with our labor standards. We'

I think the push to fab SCs in the US is going to quickly run up against the fact that consumer technology pricing is incompatible with our labor standards. We've spent the last 50+ years exploiting global wage inequality to flood the country with cheap consumer goods, and we've reached a point where our sense of self-satisfaction is entirely fused to the acquisition of these cheap goods. Along the way we've ceded a lot of ground in the way of healthy communities and a rich public sphere. National pride is only going to make up for so much when it causes the iPhone 16 to jump $500 and people are still stuck in their isolating suburban hellscape. IMO the only way for this to work in the long-term is a national reset about what "quality of life" really means, and I don't think our political class is willing to engage with all of the questions that will entail. edit: "American Factory" is a really interesting documentary that covers something like this dynamic in the context of an auto-glass manufacturing facility. US workers fought hard for their labor rights and capital responded by fleeing the country to more permissive political regimes. We accepted this loss of jobs because it kept the all-import car prices down. Now that other countries are starting to eat our lunch in the global economy we're suddenly not so stoked about globalization, oh no the consequences of my own actions!!

riku_iki 3y ago
> "American Factory" is a really interesting documentary that covers something like this dynamic in the context of an auto-glass manufacturing facility. probably fab employee adds more value, and can be paid much higher and work with higher labor standards.
- tech_ken 3y ago
  If the product is being sold for less than its true value then the person making that product will be underpaid and/or overworked. Sure someone choosing between "glass factory" and "semiconductor fab" may choose the latter if they can, but that doesn't mean that they will get standards and pay commensurate with other jobs in the US requiring similar training or effort. Taiwanese labor standards are way lower than in the US, and the price-point of our consumer electronic goods requires that. Either the prices go up (and people get mad), the labor standards come down (and people get mad), or the tech companies accept lower profit margins (and capital owners get mad, and they tend to get their way). There's no magic fix to this trilemma, historically we've just moved the bad labor standards out of sight so US voters can get their labor standards and Tim Cook can get his ballooning valuation. One of these two things is going to have to give if we want to make chips on-shore.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    > Taiwanese labor standards are way lower than in the US, and the price-point of our consumer electronic goods requires that. not necessary. tsmc has 40% profit margin, so they could totally pay more to taiwanese employees, but decided not to and pocket profit instead.
    - tech_ken 3y ago
      Big-time agreement with you there

riku_iki 3y ago

> "American Factory" is a really interesting documentary that covers something like this dynamic in the context of an auto-glass manufacturing facility. probably fab employee adds more value, and can be paid much higher and work with higher labor standards.

tech_ken 3y ago
If the product is being sold for less than its true value then the person making that product will be underpaid and/or overworked. Sure someone choosing between "glass factory" and "semiconductor fab" may choose the latter if they can, but that doesn't mean that they will get standards and pay commensurate with other jobs in the US requiring similar training or effort. Taiwanese labor standards are way lower than in the US, and the price-point of our consumer electronic goods requires that. Either the prices go up (and people get mad), the labor standards come down (and people get mad), or the tech companies accept lower profit margins (and capital owners get mad, and they tend to get their way). There's no magic fix to this trilemma, historically we've just moved the bad labor standards out of sight so US voters can get their labor standards and Tim Cook can get his ballooning valuation. One of these two things is going to have to give if we want to make chips on-shore.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  > Taiwanese labor standards are way lower than in the US, and the price-point of our consumer electronic goods requires that. not necessary. tsmc has 40% profit margin, so they could totally pay more to taiwanese employees, but decided not to and pocket profit instead.
  - tech_ken 3y ago
    Big-time agreement with you there