4 ms·

I don't want a free tax filing system. I want the IRS to give me form - paper or digital - with the data they already know from my employer, bank, etc already

I don't want a free tax filing system. I want the IRS to give me form - paper or digital - with the data they already know from my employer, bank, etc already in. I'd be happy to enter the other things myself.

ellisv 3y ago
They will if you get it wrong enough.
- atlasunshrugged 3y ago
  Having just received a letter in the mail saying I owe an extra ~$850 from 2020 I can confirm this is the case!
  - RetpolineDrama 3y ago
    Did they say what for?
    - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
      They probably did at an extremely high level, I already paid and threw it away (which was silly... don't do tax stuff when mentally exhausted) but it certainly had no specific details or context on how they arrived at that conclusion, what exactly was wrong, etc. It did have some very serious statements about failure to pay, increased penalties for late fees, etc. and having tried to call the IRS in the past, I know that it's worse than pulling teeth to get real answers so I decided this fight wasn't worth it. That said, I have also had them come back before with a mistake on their end and a check I wasn't expecting so my current mental model for the IRS is that they are honest brokers in general, just really really slow.
    - ellisv 3y ago
      They will say what for and give you the opportunity to dispute it. You can even call and talk with someone. They aren't faceless, heartless, or infallible. If it's their mistake, or an honest mistake on your part, they're pretty easy to work with.
      - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
        I'd disagree a bit with the faceless part and being able to call and talk with someone. It depends how much patience you have to wait on the phone.
- mikestew 3y ago
  Yeah, but the "tax preparation" fees of the IRS are considerably higher than Intuit's. (IOW, if you rely on the IRS to tell you what you owe, there's probably a penalty attached.)
  - singron 3y ago
    It's not bad. The form actually says you don't have to calculate your tax and you can leave the remaining fields blank. The IRS will crunch the numbers and send a bill/refund. If your income is simple, that's a good way to file. If you made a mistake crunching that part yourself, they will correct it. If you get a refund or don't owe much, then it's not a big deal. If you have choices (e.g. joint vs separate, itemized vs std deductible), then you want to crunch the numbers yourself so that you can make the best choice. You also need to be careful if you have reporting requirements that don't affect the tax total that year like IRA backdoors and AMT books.
winter_blue 3y ago
Wouldn’t that create an incentive for people to under report their income?
- VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
  Is that different than now
  - hellojesus 3y ago
    By keeping their hand secret, the citizen has to error on ovrreporting so as to avoid unreporting penalties. So it makes sense for the gov not to show their hand. The gov is akin to blackjack dealer. However, it's not clear to me how self reporting/filling is not a 5A violation of self incrimination.
gsliepen 3y ago
When I was living in Sweden, it was like that. I got a paper form with everything already filled, including income, loans, assets and so on. If everything was correct and you didn't have to change or amend things, then you could send a single text message (SMS) to confirm that everything was OK. Since estimated taxes are already deducted from your salary by your employer, you only have to pay the difference with that estimation. A few of the years they overestimated that a little bit, and I got the money back on my bank account within a month. This is how it can be.

ellisv 3y ago

They will if you get it wrong enough.

atlasunshrugged 3y ago
Having just received a letter in the mail saying I owe an extra ~$850 from 2020 I can confirm this is the case!
- RetpolineDrama 3y ago
  Did they say what for?
  - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
    They probably did at an extremely high level, I already paid and threw it away (which was silly... don't do tax stuff when mentally exhausted) but it certainly had no specific details or context on how they arrived at that conclusion, what exactly was wrong, etc. It did have some very serious statements about failure to pay, increased penalties for late fees, etc. and having tried to call the IRS in the past, I know that it's worse than pulling teeth to get real answers so I decided this fight wasn't worth it. That said, I have also had them come back before with a mistake on their end and a check I wasn't expecting so my current mental model for the IRS is that they are honest brokers in general, just really really slow.
  - ellisv 3y ago
    They will say what for and give you the opportunity to dispute it. You can even call and talk with someone. They aren't faceless, heartless, or infallible. If it's their mistake, or an honest mistake on your part, they're pretty easy to work with.
    - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
      I'd disagree a bit with the faceless part and being able to call and talk with someone. It depends how much patience you have to wait on the phone.
mikestew 3y ago
Yeah, but the "tax preparation" fees of the IRS are considerably higher than Intuit's. (IOW, if you rely on the IRS to tell you what you owe, there's probably a penalty attached.)
- singron 3y ago
  It's not bad. The form actually says you don't have to calculate your tax and you can leave the remaining fields blank. The IRS will crunch the numbers and send a bill/refund. If your income is simple, that's a good way to file. If you made a mistake crunching that part yourself, they will correct it. If you get a refund or don't owe much, then it's not a big deal. If you have choices (e.g. joint vs separate, itemized vs std deductible), then you want to crunch the numbers yourself so that you can make the best choice. You also need to be careful if you have reporting requirements that don't affect the tax total that year like IRA backdoors and AMT books.

winter_blue 3y ago

Wouldn’t that create an incentive for people to under report their income?

VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
Is that different than now
- hellojesus 3y ago
  By keeping their hand secret, the citizen has to error on ovrreporting so as to avoid unreporting penalties. So it makes sense for the gov not to show their hand. The gov is akin to blackjack dealer. However, it's not clear to me how self reporting/filling is not a 5A violation of self incrimination.

gsliepen 3y ago

When I was living in Sweden, it was like that. I got a paper form with everything already filled, including income, loans, assets and so on. If everything was correct and you didn't have to change or amend things, then you could send a single text message (SMS) to confirm that everything was OK. Since estimated taxes are already deducted from your salary by your employer, you only have to pay the difference with that estimation. A few of the years they overestimated that a little bit, and I got the money back on my bank account within a month. This is how it can be.