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Okay, but now try "what's the best gaming laptop?" or something similar. This is the sort of query that, at one time, would unearth some nerd's web site alongsi

Okay, but now try "what's the best gaming laptop?" or something similar. This is the sort of query that, at one time, would unearth some nerd's web site alongside PCWorld or whatever. Now it's seven pages of nearly identical listicles, some of which are on bizarre domains like "DougsAutoBodyAndFlowerShop.com", and all of which are festooned with ads, also provided by Google.

distortedsignal 3y ago
Ok, I'll try that. Top results (excluding sponsors b/c UBlock Origin): PC Gamer The Verge Games Radar Youtube (channel: Jarrod's Tech) A giant ad showing some laptops to buy Youtube (channel: PC Builder) RTINGS.com PC Magazine Youtube (channel: Top Tech Now) CNET Tom's Hardware Another giant ad showing some laptops to buy Engadget PC Magazine Laptop Mag TechRadar These are mainstream tech press sites. And maybe the reason that it's a bunch of similar listicles is because the thing you're looking for (a laptop) is a product with relatively few entries in the market. What are you expecting here that Google isn't giving you? I'm trying to be as charitable as possible, but, for me, the expected results are about as good as I could hope for.
- distortedsignal 3y ago
  I want to point out - if you get to the seventh page of Google, it's been known for some time that those results are... specious at best. Check out this xkcd from almost a decade ago: https://xkcd.com/1334/ https://xkcd.com/1334/ https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1334:_Second https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1334:_Second If you're really going to page 7 of Google... man, that's a desperation I've never known.
  - deltarholamda 3y ago
    I've searched for various weird error messages and ended up far into the Lands of Deep Pagination before, trying to find some glimmer of hope that I can unbrick whatever beep-boop thing I broke. It is a violent and windswept place, barren of joy or peace.
    - distortedsignal 3y ago
      We've all had our denvercoder9 moment, for sure.
  - onetokeoverthe 3y ago
    [dead]
- deltarholamda 3y ago
  >mainstream tech press sites That's kind of the point. Old Google unearthed things. New Google is where you go to find out what the media (and Google) wants you to know. If that's what you want, then sure, Google is great. I used "best gaming laptop" as an example, but you can try "what is the best mayonnaise" if you'd like. My results included Uproxx. Which I guess counts as "unearthing," since I would never go to a clickbait farm like Uproxx for culinary tips. I'm not suggesting I have an alternative, before you ask. This may be nothing more than the inevitable result of the commercialization and commodification of the Internet. Since all of the search companies are going all-in on AI stuff, you may find yourself in my position in a year or two.
  - distortedsignal 3y ago
    Yeah - I think that "commercialization and commodification" is kind of what I've attributed this to. I think the webring concept is probably the best way to get away from this, but it's not trivial to find those hidden gems. The good ones become/became less hidden. The bad ones get/got buried. But if these are the complaints about Google - "I only see sites that are so good that they constitute the mainstream" - I'm... ok with that? That seems like a good outcome to me. I don't mind using that tool. From what I understand of your complaint, sometime in the last 20 years, the Google stopped finding outsider art. I would guess that's due to SEO. And with anything that's known to drive revenue to a business, that sort of thing becomes a target. So people target the Google algorithm to place better. I don't know that there's a solution to that. But I don't think it's because of a change inside Google - more like a change in society.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > "I only see sites that are so good that they constitute the mainstream" The problem as I see it is that the mainstream websites are not good. Search results that gave a broader range of hits than just that sort of thing would be much, much more useful. If I want, for example, to find what laptops people consider the best, none of those sites help me.
      - 3y ago
marginalia_nu 3y ago
Not really sure what organic content you expect to find for that query. Maybe you'll find a blog post from someone who bought a gaming laptop and found it pretty good? Or an old forum thread like this one[1] Not a lot of actual human beings sitting around buying and comparing various gaming laptops. It's much more likely the content you'll find is from some content mill. [1] https://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61296 https://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61296
deleted 3y ago
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kccqzy 3y ago
That nerd's web site isn't going to be up to date compared with tech journalism behemoths.
wyclif 3y ago
The worst is when (as in your example above) there's a bunch of YouTube videos on the first page of results. I do watch some YT channels, but generally speaking if I'm doing a Google search I'm looking for information quickly, so there's no way I'm going to watch a video in order to extract the bit of information I'm looking for.

distortedsignal 3y ago

Ok, I'll try that. Top results (excluding sponsors b/c UBlock Origin): PC Gamer The Verge Games Radar Youtube (channel: Jarrod's Tech) A giant ad showing some laptops to buy Youtube (channel: PC Builder) RTINGS.com PC Magazine Youtube (channel: Top Tech Now) CNET Tom's Hardware Another giant ad showing some laptops to buy Engadget PC Magazine Laptop Mag TechRadar These are mainstream tech press sites. And maybe the reason that it's a bunch of similar listicles is because the thing you're looking for (a laptop) is a product with relatively few entries in the market. What are you expecting here that Google isn't giving you? I'm trying to be as charitable as possible, but, for me, the expected results are about as good as I could hope for.

distortedsignal 3y ago
I want to point out - if you get to the seventh page of Google, it's been known for some time that those results are... specious at best. Check out this xkcd from almost a decade ago: https://xkcd.com/1334/ https://xkcd.com/1334/ https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1334:_Second https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1334:_Second If you're really going to page 7 of Google... man, that's a desperation I've never known.
- deltarholamda 3y ago
  I've searched for various weird error messages and ended up far into the Lands of Deep Pagination before, trying to find some glimmer of hope that I can unbrick whatever beep-boop thing I broke. It is a violent and windswept place, barren of joy or peace.
  - distortedsignal 3y ago
    We've all had our denvercoder9 moment, for sure.
- onetokeoverthe 3y ago
  [dead]
deltarholamda 3y ago
>mainstream tech press sites That's kind of the point. Old Google unearthed things. New Google is where you go to find out what the media (and Google) wants you to know. If that's what you want, then sure, Google is great. I used "best gaming laptop" as an example, but you can try "what is the best mayonnaise" if you'd like. My results included Uproxx. Which I guess counts as "unearthing," since I would never go to a clickbait farm like Uproxx for culinary tips. I'm not suggesting I have an alternative, before you ask. This may be nothing more than the inevitable result of the commercialization and commodification of the Internet. Since all of the search companies are going all-in on AI stuff, you may find yourself in my position in a year or two.
- distortedsignal 3y ago
  Yeah - I think that "commercialization and commodification" is kind of what I've attributed this to. I think the webring concept is probably the best way to get away from this, but it's not trivial to find those hidden gems. The good ones become/became less hidden. The bad ones get/got buried. But if these are the complaints about Google - "I only see sites that are so good that they constitute the mainstream" - I'm... ok with that? That seems like a good outcome to me. I don't mind using that tool. From what I understand of your complaint, sometime in the last 20 years, the Google stopped finding outsider art. I would guess that's due to SEO. And with anything that's known to drive revenue to a business, that sort of thing becomes a target. So people target the Google algorithm to place better. I don't know that there's a solution to that. But I don't think it's because of a change inside Google - more like a change in society.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > "I only see sites that are so good that they constitute the mainstream" The problem as I see it is that the mainstream websites are not good. Search results that gave a broader range of hits than just that sort of thing would be much, much more useful. If I want, for example, to find what laptops people consider the best, none of those sites help me.
    - 3y ago

marginalia_nu 3y ago

Not really sure what organic content you expect to find for that query. Maybe you'll find a blog post from someone who bought a gaming laptop and found it pretty good? Or an old forum thread like this one[1] Not a lot of actual human beings sitting around buying and comparing various gaming laptops. It's much more likely the content you'll find is from some content mill. [1] https://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61296 https://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61296

deleted 3y ago

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deleted 3y ago

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kccqzy 3y ago

That nerd's web site isn't going to be up to date compared with tech journalism behemoths.

wyclif 3y ago

The worst is when (as in your example above) there's a bunch of YouTube videos on the first page of results. I do watch some YT channels, but generally speaking if I'm doing a Google search I'm looking for information quickly, so there's no way I'm going to watch a video in order to extract the bit of information I'm looking for.