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Since that asteroid will only be "observed" by this mission, it's exact value if retrieved is moot. Not that we have the technology to move a dense space objec

Since that asteroid will only be "observed" by this mission, it's exact value if retrieved is moot. Not that we have the technology to move a dense space object that's "173 miles at its widest point" to a useful place. What would that useful place even be? Would you put an object "173 miles across" in LEO next to the ISS? I doubt it. We also don't have the technology to land it in a controlled way.

imiric 3y ago
> Not that we have the technology to move a dense space object that's "173 miles at its widest point" to a useful place. Would that really be out of reach for what we can currently do? Naively I would think that strapping a few boosters to a rock to nudge it in a direction closer to Earth, and then decelerate it to keep it in a stable orbit, seems like something within our capabilities. It might take a lot of time and resources to accomplish, but I've heard crazier ideas from Elon before. Any reason why it wouldn't work? That said, are there nearer and smaller objects we could mine first? Any ideas why NASA decided to focus on precisely this one?
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  > Would that really be out of reach for what we can currently do? Naively. I would say yes. I think you're far far underestimating the thrusts needed to move big rocks and match orbits. But please go ahead and do the math if you think that this extra-ordinary idea can work. Having a 173 mile metal object in LEO is also a non-starter - getting it there and keeping it there are both insanely dangerous if anything goes wrong. The ISS's orbit is not stable without periodic booster thrusts (1). And higher orbits where there is not-one around - how useful are those exactly? They could become useful, maybe. but that's not what we can currently do. 1) https://www.universetoday.com/155694/watch-what-happens-to-astronauts-when-the-international-space-station-gets-an-orbital-reboost https://www.universetoday.com/155694/watch-what-happens-to-a...
  - imiric 3y ago
    Sure, I'm aware it would take an extraordinary amount of thrust, but the exact amount will depend on the acceleration and speed we want it to move. If we would be willing to wait decades (centuries?) for it to reach us, it could possibly be done cheaply with solar sails. And this wouldn't have to be anywhere near LEO/HEO to be useful. Getting it somewhere in the order of the distance to the Moon, or even much closer than Mars, would make mining and transportation that much cheaper. We could even blow and transport chunks of it at a time instead of the whole thing, as a sibling comment mentioned. It's not much worth to us in its current location, so these missions are merely exploratory.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
      > Getting it somewhere in the order of the distance to the Moon, or even much closer than Mars, would make mining and transportation that much cheaper. Actually I disagree, placing an object "somewhere between the moon and mars" is at our current space ability, uselessly "out of reach". Perhaps there is a plan where this makes sense in the next century, but I think you're far far overestimating the utility of it and "what we can currently do".
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  > Any ideas why NASA decided to focus on precisely this one? NASA is not focusing on only this rock. Here is the current state of asteroid sample return: https://www.nasa.gov/osiris-rex https://www.nasa.gov/osiris-rex https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2022/1st-nasa-asteroid-sample-return-mission-on-track-for-fall-23-delivery/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2022/1st-nasa-asteroid-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSIRIS-REx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSIRIS-REx The sample size is "between 60 g and 2,000 g". Here is the current state of moving asteroids: proof that it can happen at all has occurred. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-dart-mission-impact-changed-asteroid-s-motion-in-space https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-dart-missio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimorphos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimorphos The target asteroid Dimorphos is 581 ft across, and is a loose, soft pile of debris, so it is very much unlike 16 Psyche.
lesuorac 3y ago
I'm sure there are plenty of 173 sq mi areas on earth to put it. And if there's not, by the time it reaches the surface that area will be pretty clear!
godshatter 3y ago
I'm a developer, not an engineer, but if you wanted it closer, I'm guessing you'd need to move into an orbit that is close to earth's orbit and close to earth's position in that orbit. Far easier, probably, to cut out small chunks of it and send them on a trajectory we can manipulate easier because the forces are way smaller. Large chunks of gold in an orbit anywhere near the earth would be enough motivation to find a way to retrieve them, I'm guessing.
coffeebeqn 3y ago
I also can’t imagine gold being worthwhile enough to bring back. Sure it’s quite valuable per oz but there’s plenty on earth for all industrial uses. Most of it is sitting in vaults, “preserving value”

imiric 3y ago

> Not that we have the technology to move a dense space object that's "173 miles at its widest point" to a useful place. Would that really be out of reach for what we can currently do? Naively I would think that strapping a few boosters to a rock to nudge it in a direction closer to Earth, and then decelerate it to keep it in a stable orbit, seems like something within our capabilities. It might take a lot of time and resources to accomplish, but I've heard crazier ideas from Elon before. Any reason why it wouldn't work? That said, are there nearer and smaller objects we could mine first? Any ideas why NASA decided to focus on precisely this one?

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
> Would that really be out of reach for what we can currently do? Naively. I would say yes. I think you're far far underestimating the thrusts needed to move big rocks and match orbits. But please go ahead and do the math if you think that this extra-ordinary idea can work. Having a 173 mile metal object in LEO is also a non-starter - getting it there and keeping it there are both insanely dangerous if anything goes wrong. The ISS's orbit is not stable without periodic booster thrusts (1). And higher orbits where there is not-one around - how useful are those exactly? They could become useful, maybe. but that's not what we can currently do. 1) https://www.universetoday.com/155694/watch-what-happens-to-astronauts-when-the-international-space-station-gets-an-orbital-reboost https://www.universetoday.com/155694/watch-what-happens-to-a...
- imiric 3y ago
  Sure, I'm aware it would take an extraordinary amount of thrust, but the exact amount will depend on the acceleration and speed we want it to move. If we would be willing to wait decades (centuries?) for it to reach us, it could possibly be done cheaply with solar sails. And this wouldn't have to be anywhere near LEO/HEO to be useful. Getting it somewhere in the order of the distance to the Moon, or even much closer than Mars, would make mining and transportation that much cheaper. We could even blow and transport chunks of it at a time instead of the whole thing, as a sibling comment mentioned. It's not much worth to us in its current location, so these missions are merely exploratory.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
    > Getting it somewhere in the order of the distance to the Moon, or even much closer than Mars, would make mining and transportation that much cheaper. Actually I disagree, placing an object "somewhere between the moon and mars" is at our current space ability, uselessly "out of reach". Perhaps there is a plan where this makes sense in the next century, but I think you're far far overestimating the utility of it and "what we can currently do".
SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
> Any ideas why NASA decided to focus on precisely this one? NASA is not focusing on only this rock. Here is the current state of asteroid sample return: https://www.nasa.gov/osiris-rex https://www.nasa.gov/osiris-rex https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2022/1st-nasa-asteroid-sample-return-mission-on-track-for-fall-23-delivery/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2022/1st-nasa-asteroid-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSIRIS-REx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSIRIS-REx The sample size is "between 60 g and 2,000 g". Here is the current state of moving asteroids: proof that it can happen at all has occurred. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-dart-mission-impact-changed-asteroid-s-motion-in-space https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-dart-missio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimorphos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimorphos The target asteroid Dimorphos is 581 ft across, and is a loose, soft pile of debris, so it is very much unlike 16 Psyche.

lesuorac 3y ago

I'm sure there are plenty of 173 sq mi areas on earth to put it. And if there's not, by the time it reaches the surface that area will be pretty clear!

godshatter 3y ago

I'm a developer, not an engineer, but if you wanted it closer, I'm guessing you'd need to move into an orbit that is close to earth's orbit and close to earth's position in that orbit. Far easier, probably, to cut out small chunks of it and send them on a trajectory we can manipulate easier because the forces are way smaller. Large chunks of gold in an orbit anywhere near the earth would be enough motivation to find a way to retrieve them, I'm guessing.

coffeebeqn 3y ago

I also can’t imagine gold being worthwhile enough to bring back. Sure it’s quite valuable per oz but there’s plenty on earth for all industrial uses. Most of it is sitting in vaults, “preserving value”