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Did you just take a problem that free market tech created and blame it on the government? ;) User agent sovereignty would be nice... except the most used brows

by ethbr0 3y ago

Did you just take a problem that free market tech created and blame it on the government? ;) User agent sovereignty would be nice... except the most used browser and 1/2 of smartphones are controlled by Google, the largest ad tracking company on the planet. We're way past the 90s.

rglullis 3y ago
Is it the time of the day where I make Brave advocacy again? Brave has shown that we can have an user agent that is aligned with the user, even if the browser engine is made by Google.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  The same Brave that is selling data for AI companies, which may or may not include personal data ? I'd say it's probably not a good day for Brave advocacy. Neither is any other day.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    That's a very good example of "argument-by-Google". You know what conclusion you want to achieve, so you just go around looking for statements that are either taken out of context or misunderstood and that can be backed by a (shallow) google search. For the record: go back to the article that you are (wrongly) alluding to [0] and see how much the author has retracted. Also, see the response from Brave's Chief of Search. I "have" to keep advocating them because all the opposition that is presented is always based on false information, biased and prejudiced and clearly made by people who never used the browser or tried to understand the value proposition. There are tons of things to criticize about Brave (their "partnerships" with Binance and Solana, their complete lack of interest in making BAT an actual currency for payments online, them completely losing the train of decentralized social media) but none of that ever comes up from the detractors, only this kind of bullshit like the one you bring up. [0]: https://stackdiary.com/brave-selling-copyrighted-data-for-ai-training/ https://stackdiary.com/brave-selling-copyrighted-data-for-ai...
    - ohgodplsno 3y ago
      I'm just going to quote the updated, follow up article: The Brave Search API does not respect the site's licensing, and Brave is under the assumption that 1) because they are a search engine and 2) because they attribute the URI of data - this puts them in the clear to scrape and resell data word-for-word. Brave steals data and resells it, and is not to be considered a trustworthy entity.
      - rglullis 3y ago
        The article went from "selling personal data to AI companies" to "selling results in the API search with a longer summary than Google which might be a violation of fair use policy", and yet you still don't want to back down.
sanderjd 3y ago
This particular problem with annoying cookie dialogs is actually a government-created problem though... But I do agree with you that "free market tech" created the problem of "tracking cookies are ubiquitous and users don't know how to control them". But then regulators just layered another annoyance on top of that, instead of solving that actual problem.
explaininjs 3y ago
Google, the same company that provides a litany of fine grained cookie retention options in its User Agent’s options page? Except thanks to the government’s antagonistic policies (read: big-media’s lobbying) those are useless as you need to keep on clicking the damn pop ups every time you visit a page “anew”. Also never forget we already had a perfectly good solution in the form of Do Not Track headers that a benevolent governing body would have simply mandated abiding by. Instead we have this shithole.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  DNT was ignored from the time it was implemented. The only way it ever would have been respected if it was required to cryptographically sign an acceptance of cookies, then the server was required to retain that attestation as proof of acceptance, subject to legal liability if they were found in possession of tracking data without a valid attestation. Absent enforceability, even when the server actively and maliciously decided to ignore it, it was a toothless solution.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    The EU just should have said "if you don't respect DNT, go directly to jail and don't pass Go".
    - ethbr0 3y ago
      How would not respecting DNT have been proven? The rub here is that everyone wanted to ignore DNT, because it made them lots and lots of money.
      - PaulHoule 3y ago
        How can you prove that they respect your preferences in those consent theater pop ups? I think those pop ups are the worst thing that ever happened to the web because they eliminated the moral authority that anyone had to say “it is user hostile to use pop ups”. Once the EU made it appear “required” and even “laudable” or “prosocial” there was no basis to say “you shouldn’t put this other popup in that will make users feel harassed”. So now we get pages where the popups get in the way of the other popups.

by ethbr0 3y ago

rglullis 3y ago

Is it the time of the day where I make Brave advocacy again? Brave has shown that we can have an user agent that is aligned with the user, even if the browser engine is made by Google.

ohgodplsno 3y ago
The same Brave that is selling data for AI companies, which may or may not include personal data ? I'd say it's probably not a good day for Brave advocacy. Neither is any other day.
- rglullis 3y ago
  That's a very good example of "argument-by-Google". You know what conclusion you want to achieve, so you just go around looking for statements that are either taken out of context or misunderstood and that can be backed by a (shallow) google search. For the record: go back to the article that you are (wrongly) alluding to [0] and see how much the author has retracted. Also, see the response from Brave's Chief of Search. I "have" to keep advocating them because all the opposition that is presented is always based on false information, biased and prejudiced and clearly made by people who never used the browser or tried to understand the value proposition. There are tons of things to criticize about Brave (their "partnerships" with Binance and Solana, their complete lack of interest in making BAT an actual currency for payments online, them completely losing the train of decentralized social media) but none of that ever comes up from the detractors, only this kind of bullshit like the one you bring up. [0]: https://stackdiary.com/brave-selling-copyrighted-data-for-ai-training/ https://stackdiary.com/brave-selling-copyrighted-data-for-ai...
  - ohgodplsno 3y ago
    I'm just going to quote the updated, follow up article: The Brave Search API does not respect the site's licensing, and Brave is under the assumption that 1) because they are a search engine and 2) because they attribute the URI of data - this puts them in the clear to scrape and resell data word-for-word. Brave steals data and resells it, and is not to be considered a trustworthy entity.
    - rglullis 3y ago
      The article went from "selling personal data to AI companies" to "selling results in the API search with a longer summary than Google which might be a violation of fair use policy", and yet you still don't want to back down.

sanderjd 3y ago

This particular problem with annoying cookie dialogs is actually a government-created problem though... But I do agree with you that "free market tech" created the problem of "tracking cookies are ubiquitous and users don't know how to control them". But then regulators just layered another annoyance on top of that, instead of solving that actual problem.

explaininjs 3y ago

Google, the same company that provides a litany of fine grained cookie retention options in its User Agent’s options page? Except thanks to the government’s antagonistic policies (read: big-media’s lobbying) those are useless as you need to keep on clicking the damn pop ups every time you visit a page “anew”. Also never forget we already had a perfectly good solution in the form of Do Not Track headers that a benevolent governing body would have simply mandated abiding by. Instead we have this shithole.

ethbr0 3y ago
DNT was ignored from the time it was implemented. The only way it ever would have been respected if it was required to cryptographically sign an acceptance of cookies, then the server was required to retain that attestation as proof of acceptance, subject to legal liability if they were found in possession of tracking data without a valid attestation. Absent enforceability, even when the server actively and maliciously decided to ignore it, it was a toothless solution.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  The EU just should have said "if you don't respect DNT, go directly to jail and don't pass Go".
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    How would not respecting DNT have been proven? The rub here is that everyone wanted to ignore DNT, because it made them lots and lots of money.
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      How can you prove that they respect your preferences in those consent theater pop ups? I think those pop ups are the worst thing that ever happened to the web because they eliminated the moral authority that anyone had to say “it is user hostile to use pop ups”. Once the EU made it appear “required” and even “laudable” or “prosocial” there was no basis to say “you shouldn’t put this other popup in that will make users feel harassed”. So now we get pages where the popups get in the way of the other popups.