4 ms·

And yet it wasn't a smirk, now was it? It was a smirk and other things. Right or wrong, call it what it is. Don't drop info off the event, and focus on one p

by b112 3y ago

And yet it wasn't a smirk, now was it? It was a smirk and other things. Right or wrong, call it what it is. Don't drop info off the event, and focus on one part of it. And if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street? Note, I said "doing their job", not "doing it wrong". For damned sure there are bad cops. But by god, there are a load of good ones, and some of them spend all day, dealing with people at their absolute worst, taking crap you or I wouldn't be able to handle for 5 minutes.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street Please show precedent for anyone being prosecuted for rendering an “intimidating smirk” in any other context. Or filming someone working in public.
- mrangle 3y ago
  They're being prosecuted for smirking at cops while destroying pro-cop signage, which can be read as assault. Ask yourself whether in today's age someone could get away with destroying an LGBT sign amidst a pro-LGBT protest, while staring down LGBT people, and get away with it. I don't agree with where the standards are, but most people would observe that this is the standard. Whatever anyone's personal rationalization for preferencing one group over another, in this type of enforcement, it is immaterial as far as the criminal code is concerned. There are no marginalized group allowances for assault.
  - jgwil2 3y ago
    If she tore it up and threw the pieces in their face then maybe it could be construed as assault. If she was tearing it up and smirking without physically threatening the cops then how could it possibly constitute assault?
    - mrangle 3y ago
      Read assault laws. As is common, you are conflating assault with battery.
      - jgwil2 3y ago
        I'm not. There has to be some kind of physical threat for it to be assault. Smirking is not that. Neither is tearing up paper.
      - OGWhales 3y ago
        FYI, this depends on where you live. In some states a threat of violence can count as assault while in others that’s not true. Some states don’t even have a battery charge, they only have assault.
matthewdgreen 3y ago
Thanks to your comment I read through to the original article and it’s even more despicable than I’d thought from the description. She’s being accused of a “hate crime” for “intimidating the police” based on defacing a sign. It’s the most disgusting thing I’ve ever heard of, and I have no idea why any rational human being would defend it.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  Several people have been charged with hate crimes for spinning their car tires over rainbow painted sidewalks, even though nobody else was present. Hate crime is a fucking stupid term; a crime is a crime is a crime. That said, if targeting one group deserves special treatment, then targeting any group should get the same. Equal application of the law, y'know?
  - harimau777 3y ago
    Police officers are given much more power than regular people; let alone a minority group like LGBT people. It makes sense for them to be held to a higher standard. Edit: It also looks like they were NOT charged with a hate crime for vandalizing a pride crosswalk. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/04/14/fact-check-man-who-defaced-intersection-not-charged-hate-crime/11649922002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/04/14/fac...
  - enragedcacti 3y ago
    Protected classes are part of the law and "Cop" is not one of them. Treating cops the same as minority groups would be ignorance of the law, not equal application of it.
    - mrangle 3y ago
      There are no protected class allowances for assault. This thread is a menagerie of legal misunderstanding and buzzword abuse.
  - tehwebguy 3y ago
angst_ridden 3y ago
Spoken like someone who has never worked retail.
hooverd 3y ago
Crumpling a yard sign doesn't deserve a year in jail, or any jail time in my opinion. Office workers don't have a monopoly on violence. Unfortuntely there are quite a few examples of cops treating anything other than obsequience as harassment. The problem with good police officers is that if you actually try and stand up to the institution of policing, your buddies will throw you in the psych ward on false premises and make a challenge coin to commemorate doing it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
respondo2134 3y ago
First, I agree that ALL cops spend a large portion of their job dealing with the worst aspects of our society. This inevitably colours their perspective and puts them in a very tough situation, prone for very bad mistakes. I disagree with your "some bad apples" analogy though. That would be easy to fix relative to the problem we have which is systemic. "Good" cops are in the exact same situation as the bad ones. Policing is required yet fundamentally causing the problems at the same time. >> And if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street? As stated in the article all 50 states already have laws on the books that prevent interference with police while doing their job. If you are in a public facing role like a police officer you most certainly do not have the right to being shielded from observation and interaction - that's a huge part of the job and probably part of the solution too.
manuelabeledo 3y ago
> And if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street? Is it not dangerous enough to give officers pretty much unlimited authority, and expect the people around them to forfeit their first amendment right? Police officers, being enforcers of the law, cannot reasonably be protected from people exercising their rights.
mitt_romney_12 3y ago
> But by god, there are a load of good ones, and some of them spend all day, dealing with people at their absolute worst, taking crap you or I wouldn't be able to handle for 5 minutes. There are plenty of other professions that have tough jobs that I absolutely wouldn't want to do. But that doesn't mean I'm going to start letting garbage collectors get away with murder
otikik 3y ago
> dealing with people at their absolute worst, taking crap you or I wouldn't be able to handle for 5 minutes. For sure there's bad people, but most people are good. Those people that give cops crap are just some bad apples.

by b112 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street Please show precedent for anyone being prosecuted for rendering an “intimidating smirk” in any other context. Or filming someone working in public.

mrangle 3y ago
They're being prosecuted for smirking at cops while destroying pro-cop signage, which can be read as assault. Ask yourself whether in today's age someone could get away with destroying an LGBT sign amidst a pro-LGBT protest, while staring down LGBT people, and get away with it. I don't agree with where the standards are, but most people would observe that this is the standard. Whatever anyone's personal rationalization for preferencing one group over another, in this type of enforcement, it is immaterial as far as the criminal code is concerned. There are no marginalized group allowances for assault.
- jgwil2 3y ago
  If she tore it up and threw the pieces in their face then maybe it could be construed as assault. If she was tearing it up and smirking without physically threatening the cops then how could it possibly constitute assault?
  - mrangle 3y ago
    Read assault laws. As is common, you are conflating assault with battery.
    - jgwil2 3y ago
      I'm not. There has to be some kind of physical threat for it to be assault. Smirking is not that. Neither is tearing up paper.
    - OGWhales 3y ago
      FYI, this depends on where you live. In some states a threat of violence can count as assault while in others that’s not true. Some states don’t even have a battery charge, they only have assault.

matthewdgreen 3y ago

Thanks to your comment I read through to the original article and it’s even more despicable than I’d thought from the description. She’s being accused of a “hate crime” for “intimidating the police” based on defacing a sign. It’s the most disgusting thing I’ve ever heard of, and I have no idea why any rational human being would defend it.

zdragnar 3y ago
Several people have been charged with hate crimes for spinning their car tires over rainbow painted sidewalks, even though nobody else was present. Hate crime is a fucking stupid term; a crime is a crime is a crime. That said, if targeting one group deserves special treatment, then targeting any group should get the same. Equal application of the law, y'know?
- harimau777 3y ago
  Police officers are given much more power than regular people; let alone a minority group like LGBT people. It makes sense for them to be held to a higher standard. Edit: It also looks like they were NOT charged with a hate crime for vandalizing a pride crosswalk. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/04/14/fact-check-man-who-defaced-intersection-not-charged-hate-crime/11649922002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/04/14/fac...
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  Protected classes are part of the law and "Cop" is not one of them. Treating cops the same as minority groups would be ignorance of the law, not equal application of it.
  - mrangle 3y ago
    There are no protected class allowances for assault. This thread is a menagerie of legal misunderstanding and buzzword abuse.
- tehwebguy 3y ago

angst_ridden 3y ago

Spoken like someone who has never worked retail.

hooverd 3y ago

Crumpling a yard sign doesn't deserve a year in jail, or any jail time in my opinion. Office workers don't have a monopoly on violence. Unfortuntely there are quite a few examples of cops treating anything other than obsequience as harassment. The problem with good police officers is that if you actually try and stand up to the institution of policing, your buddies will throw you in the psych ward on false premises and make a challenge coin to commemorate doing it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

respondo2134 3y ago

First, I agree that ALL cops spend a large portion of their job dealing with the worst aspects of our society. This inevitably colours their perspective and puts them in a very tough situation, prone for very bad mistakes. I disagree with your "some bad apples" analogy though. That would be easy to fix relative to the problem we have which is systemic. "Good" cops are in the exact same situation as the bad ones. Policing is required yet fundamentally causing the problems at the same time. >> And if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street? As stated in the article all 50 states already have laws on the books that prevent interference with police while doing their job. If you are in a public facing role like a police officer you most certainly do not have the right to being shielded from observation and interaction - that's a huge part of the job and probably part of the solution too.

manuelabeledo 3y ago

> And if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street? Is it not dangerous enough to give officers pretty much unlimited authority, and expect the people around them to forfeit their first amendment right? Police officers, being enforcers of the law, cannot reasonably be protected from people exercising their rights.

mitt_romney_12 3y ago

> But by god, there are a load of good ones, and some of them spend all day, dealing with people at their absolute worst, taking crap you or I wouldn't be able to handle for 5 minutes. There are plenty of other professions that have tough jobs that I absolutely wouldn't want to do. But that doesn't mean I'm going to start letting garbage collectors get away with murder

otikik 3y ago

> dealing with people at their absolute worst, taking crap you or I wouldn't be able to handle for 5 minutes. For sure there's bad people, but most people are good. Those people that give cops crap are just some bad apples.