4 ms·

Yet another wonderful gift given to the world by cigarette smokers, as if the butts/trash everywhere and toxic second-hand smoke wasn't enough. For those unawa

Yet another wonderful gift given to the world by cigarette smokers, as if the butts/trash everywhere and toxic second-hand smoke wasn't enough. For those unaware, smokers would get drunk and pass out with lit cigarettes that would set their couch on fire and burn their house down. This lead to a push to cover everything in "flame retardants" which are more accurately called "human retardants", as they do little to actually prevent combustion from an effective source and are tied to everything from cancer to developmental issues.

zer8k 3y ago
But on the other hand if a mother's child combusts they now have a way to help.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
athenot 3y ago
It's also the materials used in modern furniture, which catch fire faster. https://fsri.org/research/new-comparison-natural-and-synthetic-home-furnishings https://fsri.org/research/new-comparison-natural-and-synthet...
scrlk 3y ago
> The 2009 Greenstreet Berman study, carried out by the UK government, showed that in the period between 2002 and 2007 the UK Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulations accounted for 54 fewer deaths per year, 780 fewer non-fatal casualties per year and 1065 fewer fires each year following the introduction of the UK furniture safety regulations in 1988. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_retardant#Fire_safety_standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_retardant#Fire_safety_st... With these particular statistics, the benefits of flame retardants vs. poisoning millions of people doesn't seem worth it.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  That's an apples / oranges comparison unless we agree on an actuarial calculus for the value of saving an entire life vs. the cost of shortening a million lives by a day.
  - boondoggle16 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      As a society, we generally try to strive for a higher standard than "The less cautious among us get what's coming to them." We don't, for example, have the attitude "seatebelts are whatever, let speeding people get pulped." And there's a good history as to why we don't do that. Even people with bad judgment deserve a shot at avoiding horrible death in a civilized society.
      - boondoggle16 3y ago
        If you fall asleep drunk with flammable objects, you deserve everything coming to you. This isn't discaution, it's up there with drunk driving.
        shadowgovt 3y ago
        I'm currently working on minimizing the risks to life and limb associated with drunk driving, partially because I've known too many people dear to me who have suffered because of it to be comfortable with the notion "you deserve everything coming to you." So I think we may find ourselves at an "agree to disagree" place. ;)
        boondoggle16 3y ago
        Sorry you have friends like that. If I were you, I'd find new friends.
jollyllama 3y ago
It's do-gooders and "safety first" types who are to blame, unless there was some body of smokers I'm unaware of who said "do this to protect us from the consequences of our own actions."
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  I like how no-one has blamed the tobacco companies who did more than anyone to increase the number of smokers and cigarettes in the world.
- rcme 3y ago
  Not a convincing argument when things like apartment buildings exist.
volkk 3y ago
Reminds me a lot of working in tech to be honest. Things break, postmortems are held. Even if the breakage is as simple as "this was an honest mistake", everything is held to "how can this never happen again," so process and red tape is added. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam until your delivery speed is butchered, the bugs _still_ happen, but hey, a project manager or someone somewhere now gets to pat themselves on the back for running a meeting and adding more process that they can now tout on their future interviews.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  But at least that exact same bug can never happen again!
- londons_explore 3y ago
  This is fixed by putting a dollar number on outages, and a seperate dollar number on process. Ie. "if each release has an extra day of tests and checks, then it will delay our hockey stick growth curve by 10%. Thats worth $X". Turns out, it's usually better to be fast and break things, over trying to be reliable.
  - slowmovintarget 3y ago
    Up until the point where part of what you're selling is reliability. "Use our futzel service, you will be able to futz around all day long, and it won't go down!"
  - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
    > Turns out, it's usually better to be fast and break things In terms of # of correct guesses, sure. In terms of damage from guessing incorrectly over time, usually not. The trick is to separate processes - A CSS update probably isn't very risky, and an auth or login update probably is. Don't bundle them into "website updates". Run ahead with the layout changes and spend some time on failure-planning for the auth change.
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
musicale 3y ago
> Yet another wonderful gift given to the world by cigarette smokers Probably it was the tobacco companies lobbying for this.

zer8k 3y ago

But on the other hand if a mother's child combusts they now have a way to help.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

athenot 3y ago

It's also the materials used in modern furniture, which catch fire faster. https://fsri.org/research/new-comparison-natural-and-synthetic-home-furnishings https://fsri.org/research/new-comparison-natural-and-synthet...

scrlk 3y ago

> The 2009 Greenstreet Berman study, carried out by the UK government, showed that in the period between 2002 and 2007 the UK Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulations accounted for 54 fewer deaths per year, 780 fewer non-fatal casualties per year and 1065 fewer fires each year following the introduction of the UK furniture safety regulations in 1988. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_retardant#Fire_safety_standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_retardant#Fire_safety_st... With these particular statistics, the benefits of flame retardants vs. poisoning millions of people doesn't seem worth it.

shadowgovt 3y ago
That's an apples / oranges comparison unless we agree on an actuarial calculus for the value of saving an entire life vs. the cost of shortening a million lives by a day.
- boondoggle16 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    As a society, we generally try to strive for a higher standard than "The less cautious among us get what's coming to them." We don't, for example, have the attitude "seatebelts are whatever, let speeding people get pulped." And there's a good history as to why we don't do that. Even people with bad judgment deserve a shot at avoiding horrible death in a civilized society.
    - boondoggle16 3y ago
      If you fall asleep drunk with flammable objects, you deserve everything coming to you. This isn't discaution, it's up there with drunk driving.
      - shadowgovt 3y ago
        I'm currently working on minimizing the risks to life and limb associated with drunk driving, partially because I've known too many people dear to me who have suffered because of it to be comfortable with the notion "you deserve everything coming to you." So I think we may find ourselves at an "agree to disagree" place. ;)
        boondoggle16 3y ago
        Sorry you have friends like that. If I were you, I'd find new friends.

jollyllama 3y ago

It's do-gooders and "safety first" types who are to blame, unless there was some body of smokers I'm unaware of who said "do this to protect us from the consequences of our own actions."

AlexandrB 3y ago
I like how no-one has blamed the tobacco companies who did more than anyone to increase the number of smokers and cigarettes in the world.
rcme 3y ago
Not a convincing argument when things like apartment buildings exist.

volkk 3y ago

Reminds me a lot of working in tech to be honest. Things break, postmortems are held. Even if the breakage is as simple as "this was an honest mistake", everything is held to "how can this never happen again," so process and red tape is added. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam until your delivery speed is butchered, the bugs _still_ happen, but hey, a project manager or someone somewhere now gets to pat themselves on the back for running a meeting and adding more process that they can now tout on their future interviews.

jonhohle 3y ago
But at least that exact same bug can never happen again!
londons_explore 3y ago
This is fixed by putting a dollar number on outages, and a seperate dollar number on process. Ie. "if each release has an extra day of tests and checks, then it will delay our hockey stick growth curve by 10%. Thats worth $X". Turns out, it's usually better to be fast and break things, over trying to be reliable.
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  Up until the point where part of what you're selling is reliability. "Use our futzel service, you will be able to futz around all day long, and it won't go down!"
- LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
  > Turns out, it's usually better to be fast and break things In terms of # of correct guesses, sure. In terms of damage from guessing incorrectly over time, usually not. The trick is to separate processes - A CSS update probably isn't very risky, and an auth or login update probably is. Don't bundle them into "website updates". Run ahead with the layout changes and spend some time on failure-planning for the auth change.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago

musicale 3y ago

> Yet another wonderful gift given to the world by cigarette smokers Probably it was the tobacco companies lobbying for this.