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by garbanz0 3y ago

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veidr 3y ago
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- h2odragon 3y ago
  And...? Which of those proposals do you disagree with?
  - veidr 3y ago
    I think it's better to find other people to help promote physical fitness.
- meschi 3y ago
  What an absurd comparison by you. I've always been pro covid vaccine but comparing vaccine criticism to the Nazi Holocaust is absolutely ridiculous.
  - veidr 3y ago
    That isn't really a literal comparison being made -- it's maximally exaggerated, to emphasize the main point: that the negative thing being conceded vastly outweighs the positive thing being lauded. "OK, yeah, our buddy Louis does beat his wife, and totally deserved to get arrested last weekend, don't get me wrong -- but man does that guy make a delicious lasagna!" The piece of shit known as RFK isn't just your normal crackpot science-denier uncle. I mean, he actually is very much like that in many ways, but because of the famous family name he banks on, and perhaps the credulous idiotism of our modern media landscape and/or celebrity-worship cultural defect, he is responsible for enormous suffering, including the deaths of many children. It's hard to put a precise number on, because the parents are truly responsible, and he only convinced them not to vaccinate -- but if bringing back measles to kill children was a sport, he'd be the Joe Rogan color commentator for it. He's repudiated by his family, and those with at least a rudimentary high school understanding of science, for a reason. So, yes, toxic chemicals in our environment or in consumer products is a problem, and one that the US political system isn't doing well addressing. But even if Jeffrey Dahmer agrees with you, and can pithily and eloquently summarize the risks -- you still need to find a different spokesperson.
shapefrog 3y ago
If only more politicians were on board with the green agenda or made it one of their parties central issues.
discretion22 3y ago
It seems to me that there are two different things being conflated. I've listened to a number of his interviews and do confess he's not always easy to follow but this seems partly due to a history of speech problems which he has worked to overcome. There is consensus (even by RFK Jr from what I hear in interviews) that vaccines confer good immunity to the population and help control serious diseases that historically killed or maimed millions of people. There is also an argument RFK Jr. makes which is that the vaccine solutions contain many harmful components other than the actual vaccine and these components are responsible for many harmful outcomes due to their presence. These harmful side effects should not be considered acceptable and there should be work to eliminate these harms because they are not really acceptable. However, these positions seem to be routinely headlined as being anti-vaccine. They are not. The argument is anti-harm and that seems to be something people would normally support. Only through misrepresentation of his comments do people come to believe he is against vaccines and he should be "rightly maligned". His interview with Jordan Peterson was very interesting, especially as it did highlight some of RFK Jr's blindspots on politics. Worth taking time to listen to the whole thing even though it is quite long.
- losteric 3y ago
  Here is one of many articles covering RFK's antivaccine conspiracy stance: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-robert-f-kennedy-jr-distorted-vaccine-science1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-robert-f-kenn... I use that phrase because it is an accurate descriptor. He has literally published articles claiming a grand conspiracy to poison Americans, rejecting all data from repeated vaccine trials and studies by the international scientific community. Vaccine trials use the real vaccine that would go to consumers, all of it. There is robust study of the whole package, not just the component that interacts with the immune system. RFK is a bogus baseless conspiracy theorist, regardless of his current PR campaign.
  - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
    [flagged]
stainablesteel 3y ago
he's always misrepresented by this imo, and the constant hit pieces are blatant because the camp that he runs against does this as a primary strategy. he called for long-term safety studies for vaccine use, which is just tracking long-term effects, both positive and negative, to populations after getting vaccinated. he rightly points out a lack of this in the US, and rightly points out the concept of tradeoffs. Yes, vaccines can cause other negative long-term effects that aren't as bad as what you're being vaccinated against, in this case they're pulling a net-good. The case is also up for grabs that when this is a net-good or a net-bad, the information is simply not being shared the way it should, and is instead obfuscated by bureaucracy. even the latest "anti-semetic" jabs at him are from him entertaining a hypothetical in conversation where he said nothing about jewish people being a cause of anything, its just so tiresome. afaik he spoke correctly on the ace-receptor binding affinities, but the binding affinities don't cause the disease to take root more or less. do i care if he gets this detail wrong? not really, it doesn't make him a super space nazi either. to steel man what he said is to admit there's potential for ethnic targeting of bio-weapons, and since its pretty much widely understood that covid did in fact come from joint US/China idiocy, and that China's financial records show that they're preparing for war in every way possible, I wouldn't put it past a regime who's actions seem to be rhyming with a lot of other regimes from history to try to come up with a bioweapon that could potentially have that effect. The west has, after all, basically been pushing venture capital all over the insane nonsense Xi could end up using against them for the last 20+ years.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  This is an unbelievably generous take on RFK2's vaccine views. He has said, as recently as a few days ago on live TV, that vaccine research created HIV and other major diseases. He is not in favor of more long-term research, as you suggest. He is against all vaccine research.
  - tarxvf 3y ago
    If he is as inconsistent or deceptive on vaccines as he is on guns and gun rights, then it is very possible you and the person you replied to have seen wildly different opinions from RFK.
threatofrain 3y ago
JFK Jr. has a lot of conspiracy theories, otherwise I'd view the vaccine perspective as merely a quirk.
- garbanz0 3y ago
  To be honest, for someone whose uncle and father were both assassinated, he has a surprisingly level head.

[flagged]

veidr 3y ago

[flagged]

h2odragon 3y ago
And...? Which of those proposals do you disagree with?
- veidr 3y ago
  I think it's better to find other people to help promote physical fitness.
meschi 3y ago
What an absurd comparison by you. I've always been pro covid vaccine but comparing vaccine criticism to the Nazi Holocaust is absolutely ridiculous.
- veidr 3y ago
  That isn't really a literal comparison being made -- it's maximally exaggerated, to emphasize the main point: that the negative thing being conceded vastly outweighs the positive thing being lauded. "OK, yeah, our buddy Louis does beat his wife, and totally deserved to get arrested last weekend, don't get me wrong -- but man does that guy make a delicious lasagna!" The piece of shit known as RFK isn't just your normal crackpot science-denier uncle. I mean, he actually is very much like that in many ways, but because of the famous family name he banks on, and perhaps the credulous idiotism of our modern media landscape and/or celebrity-worship cultural defect, he is responsible for enormous suffering, including the deaths of many children. It's hard to put a precise number on, because the parents are truly responsible, and he only convinced them not to vaccinate -- but if bringing back measles to kill children was a sport, he'd be the Joe Rogan color commentator for it. He's repudiated by his family, and those with at least a rudimentary high school understanding of science, for a reason. So, yes, toxic chemicals in our environment or in consumer products is a problem, and one that the US political system isn't doing well addressing. But even if Jeffrey Dahmer agrees with you, and can pithily and eloquently summarize the risks -- you still need to find a different spokesperson.

shapefrog 3y ago

If only more politicians were on board with the green agenda or made it one of their parties central issues.

discretion22 3y ago

It seems to me that there are two different things being conflated. I've listened to a number of his interviews and do confess he's not always easy to follow but this seems partly due to a history of speech problems which he has worked to overcome. There is consensus (even by RFK Jr from what I hear in interviews) that vaccines confer good immunity to the population and help control serious diseases that historically killed or maimed millions of people. There is also an argument RFK Jr. makes which is that the vaccine solutions contain many harmful components other than the actual vaccine and these components are responsible for many harmful outcomes due to their presence. These harmful side effects should not be considered acceptable and there should be work to eliminate these harms because they are not really acceptable. However, these positions seem to be routinely headlined as being anti-vaccine. They are not. The argument is anti-harm and that seems to be something people would normally support. Only through misrepresentation of his comments do people come to believe he is against vaccines and he should be "rightly maligned". His interview with Jordan Peterson was very interesting, especially as it did highlight some of RFK Jr's blindspots on politics. Worth taking time to listen to the whole thing even though it is quite long.

losteric 3y ago
Here is one of many articles covering RFK's antivaccine conspiracy stance: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-robert-f-kennedy-jr-distorted-vaccine-science1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-robert-f-kenn... I use that phrase because it is an accurate descriptor. He has literally published articles claiming a grand conspiracy to poison Americans, rejecting all data from repeated vaccine trials and studies by the international scientific community. Vaccine trials use the real vaccine that would go to consumers, all of it. There is robust study of the whole package, not just the component that interacts with the immune system. RFK is a bogus baseless conspiracy theorist, regardless of his current PR campaign.
- LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
  [flagged]

stainablesteel 3y ago

he's always misrepresented by this imo, and the constant hit pieces are blatant because the camp that he runs against does this as a primary strategy. he called for long-term safety studies for vaccine use, which is just tracking long-term effects, both positive and negative, to populations after getting vaccinated. he rightly points out a lack of this in the US, and rightly points out the concept of tradeoffs. Yes, vaccines can cause other negative long-term effects that aren't as bad as what you're being vaccinated against, in this case they're pulling a net-good. The case is also up for grabs that when this is a net-good or a net-bad, the information is simply not being shared the way it should, and is instead obfuscated by bureaucracy. even the latest "anti-semetic" jabs at him are from him entertaining a hypothetical in conversation where he said nothing about jewish people being a cause of anything, its just so tiresome. afaik he spoke correctly on the ace-receptor binding affinities, but the binding affinities don't cause the disease to take root more or less. do i care if he gets this detail wrong? not really, it doesn't make him a super space nazi either. to steel man what he said is to admit there's potential for ethnic targeting of bio-weapons, and since its pretty much widely understood that covid did in fact come from joint US/China idiocy, and that China's financial records show that they're preparing for war in every way possible, I wouldn't put it past a regime who's actions seem to be rhyming with a lot of other regimes from history to try to come up with a bioweapon that could potentially have that effect. The west has, after all, basically been pushing venture capital all over the insane nonsense Xi could end up using against them for the last 20+ years.

jeffbee 3y ago
This is an unbelievably generous take on RFK2's vaccine views. He has said, as recently as a few days ago on live TV, that vaccine research created HIV and other major diseases. He is not in favor of more long-term research, as you suggest. He is against all vaccine research.
- tarxvf 3y ago
  If he is as inconsistent or deceptive on vaccines as he is on guns and gun rights, then it is very possible you and the person you replied to have seen wildly different opinions from RFK.

threatofrain 3y ago

JFK Jr. has a lot of conspiracy theories, otherwise I'd view the vaccine perspective as merely a quirk.

garbanz0 3y ago
To be honest, for someone whose uncle and father were both assassinated, he has a surprisingly level head.