3 ms·

Labor is a market, which means that the only two possibilities are 1) the offered pay is too low, 2) literally nobody in the entire country exists with these sk

by kibwen 3y ago

Labor is a market, which means that the only two possibilities are 1) the offered pay is too low, 2) literally nobody in the entire country exists with these skills (in which case, the company needs to pony up the money to train them).

whiddershins 3y ago
They have to be able to sell chips at a competitive price. In the extreme/absurd case they could pay each employee $1B/year and I’m sure they could find qualified people but they would immediately go out of business.
- mcphage 3y ago
  So thus, the right salary to hire the people they need is somewhere between what they're currently paying, and $1B/year. My guess—and this is only a guess, mind you—is that they'd still be able to staff up on something significantly lower than $1B. But I'm not an economist, so I might be wrong there.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  TSMC has a long history of increasing double digit profit margins, in the range of $10B+ per year, and is amongst the most profitable businesses in the world. I would err on the side of TSMC deciding not to pay sufficiently to incentivize labor (which may still be the optimal move for TSMC). https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semicon... https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semicon...
jltsiren 3y ago
Or 3) we are talking about real markets instead of spherical frictionless cows. The market will eventually balance itself, but it doesn't happen immediately. Consider yourself (and your family, if you have any). Assuming that the pay is right, how long would it take for you to uproot your life and move to a faraway place where you don't know anyone. And how long would it take for you to familiarize yourself with the new job and become reasonably productive? My answer would be 1-2 years.
- kibwen 3y ago
  > how long would it take for you to uproot your life If the price is right, I can be there tomorrow. Companies pay to relocate employees all the time; show me the money. > how long would it take for you to familiarize yourself with the new job According to this article, Intel and TSMC have waived any need for an advanced degree and have endorsed this program from Maricopa Community College, which takes ten days to complete: https://qz.com/you-can-now-become-a-semiconductor-technician-in-just-1-1850479047 https://qz.com/you-can-now-become-a-semiconductor-technician... 'Traditionally, semiconductor technician jobs required an associate degree. Dropping this educational requirement helps widen the talent pool amid the ramping up of a domestic supply chain, Pearson said. Employers are realizing that “as long as they just get the skills, they really don’t need the degree,” he said.'
  - jltsiren 3y ago
    I didn't mean temporary assignments. I meant a permanent relocation and everything that it involves. Leaving your former life permanently and building a new life in another place. And dealing with this not only for yourself, but also for your spouse, children, other family members, friends, and pets. And once you start in your new job, you still need to familiarize yourself with it until your productivity reaches what was expected from you. After all, the goal is not just employing someone but getting them to make substantial net contributions towards the organization's goals.

by kibwen 3y ago

whiddershins 3y ago

They have to be able to sell chips at a competitive price. In the extreme/absurd case they could pay each employee $1B/year and I’m sure they could find qualified people but they would immediately go out of business.

mcphage 3y ago
So thus, the right salary to hire the people they need is somewhere between what they're currently paying, and $1B/year. My guess—and this is only a guess, mind you—is that they'd still be able to staff up on something significantly lower than $1B. But I'm not an economist, so I might be wrong there.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
TSMC has a long history of increasing double digit profit margins, in the range of $10B+ per year, and is amongst the most profitable businesses in the world. I would err on the side of TSMC deciding not to pay sufficiently to incentivize labor (which may still be the optimal move for TSMC). https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semicon... https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSM/taiwan-semicon...

jltsiren 3y ago

Or 3) we are talking about real markets instead of spherical frictionless cows. The market will eventually balance itself, but it doesn't happen immediately. Consider yourself (and your family, if you have any). Assuming that the pay is right, how long would it take for you to uproot your life and move to a faraway place where you don't know anyone. And how long would it take for you to familiarize yourself with the new job and become reasonably productive? My answer would be 1-2 years.

kibwen 3y ago
> how long would it take for you to uproot your life If the price is right, I can be there tomorrow. Companies pay to relocate employees all the time; show me the money. > how long would it take for you to familiarize yourself with the new job According to this article, Intel and TSMC have waived any need for an advanced degree and have endorsed this program from Maricopa Community College, which takes ten days to complete: https://qz.com/you-can-now-become-a-semiconductor-technician-in-just-1-1850479047 https://qz.com/you-can-now-become-a-semiconductor-technician... 'Traditionally, semiconductor technician jobs required an associate degree. Dropping this educational requirement helps widen the talent pool amid the ramping up of a domestic supply chain, Pearson said. Employers are realizing that “as long as they just get the skills, they really don’t need the degree,” he said.'
- jltsiren 3y ago
  I didn't mean temporary assignments. I meant a permanent relocation and everything that it involves. Leaving your former life permanently and building a new life in another place. And dealing with this not only for yourself, but also for your spouse, children, other family members, friends, and pets. And once you start in your new job, you still need to familiarize yourself with it until your productivity reaches what was expected from you. After all, the goal is not just employing someone but getting them to make substantial net contributions towards the organization's goals.