8 ms·

I'm not so sure - this is incredibly technical work so it doesn't ring as hollow as it does when McDonald's or whatever claim the same.

newsclues 3y ago
A lot of the work is actually just working with dangerous chemicals, and isn't a technical desk job with prestige. It's factory work!
- sparrowInHand 3y ago
  This - chip factory work is actually a factory job, with a obssesive compulsive quality control part. One stop, one power drop and the yield goes nowhere..
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- schnitzelstoat 3y ago
  Yeah, my brother worked on stuff like this while working in a Physics lab, he got transferred to doing the software dev parts in the end as working with the acid was very stressful.
itake 3y ago
My family member works at TSMC. Last I talked to him (8mo ago), American engineers quit left and right due to working conditions and pay.
- registeredcorn 3y ago
  Can you expand a little bit on the issues with working conditions/pay at all? It would be good to have something written down publicly, if employees are being mistreated or taken advantage of.
  - javajosh 3y ago
    It depends on what's available. If you grew up in abject poverty on a rural farm then getting a job in doors, in air conditioning, without requiring brutal, repetitive physical labor is like heaven - requiring you to work 15 hour days and 7 days a week is a small price to pay. If you grew up in a wealthy suburb, then the baseline is 40-hour weeks in the same conditions, and you have aspirations to either a) work less for the same money or b) make a lot more money. Anything else is "abusive" to you. There's something like labor arbitrage going on here...
    - throw9away6 3y ago
      Those people are gone from the labor pool. They were a momentary artifact of class mobility that was present up to the early 90s but is no longer a thing
    - registeredcorn 3y ago
      I totally feel that! :) One of the things that I found great about working with computers was that it got me away from being a few inches away from a fryer for 8-16 hours a day. Not having to deal with screaming parents, sobbing children, and people literally (yes, literally) throwing hot food at me that "had too much (whatever) on it". Instead, getting to sit in a calm quiet environment for literally something like 5x the pay, for barely 3 to 4 hours of work, was a massive improvement. Over time, I managed to get into a role that has even less customer interaction, for higher pay, and less stress. It's also in something I actually care about, too! It's really great how freeing things can be, once you start to get specialized into specific areas. Anyway, I was kind of tripped out on how the commenter had phrased their initial comment, "people quitting left and right". I had taken to mean something like "...because of a recent change", and was wondering what it was. The commenter made a follow up and it sounds closer to something like, "People would join and work for TSMC for a short time, then get disgusted and quit." I had assumed that there was a long-term American work force that had been floating around, but left because of something that wasn't covered in the article, and I wanted to know what that was. It sounds like that's not really what they meant.
      - 3y ago
- mcphage 3y ago
  > American engineers quit left and right due to working conditions and pay Which TSMC location has American engineers working at it?
  - itake 3y ago
    TSMC hires US college grads and flies them to Tainan for training for a couple years. Then they go back to Arizona to setup the factory.
intrasight 3y ago
As any economist would tell you, "Labor Shortage" is a myth in any industry.
- thfuran 3y ago
  Not in new or rapidly expanding fields that require expertise.
maldev 3y ago
Hardware (And even embedded programming) pays absolute ass since it's all outsourced to Asia. Zero reason not to do literally any other job which will use the same skills, and pay double. Bringing it to America, means upping the salaries to match what Americans expect, and alot of jobs just lowball still.

newsclues 3y ago

A lot of the work is actually just working with dangerous chemicals, and isn't a technical desk job with prestige. It's factory work!

sparrowInHand 3y ago
This - chip factory work is actually a factory job, with a obssesive compulsive quality control part. One stop, one power drop and the yield goes nowhere..
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
schnitzelstoat 3y ago
Yeah, my brother worked on stuff like this while working in a Physics lab, he got transferred to doing the software dev parts in the end as working with the acid was very stressful.

itake 3y ago

My family member works at TSMC. Last I talked to him (8mo ago), American engineers quit left and right due to working conditions and pay.

registeredcorn 3y ago
Can you expand a little bit on the issues with working conditions/pay at all? It would be good to have something written down publicly, if employees are being mistreated or taken advantage of.
- javajosh 3y ago
  It depends on what's available. If you grew up in abject poverty on a rural farm then getting a job in doors, in air conditioning, without requiring brutal, repetitive physical labor is like heaven - requiring you to work 15 hour days and 7 days a week is a small price to pay. If you grew up in a wealthy suburb, then the baseline is 40-hour weeks in the same conditions, and you have aspirations to either a) work less for the same money or b) make a lot more money. Anything else is "abusive" to you. There's something like labor arbitrage going on here...
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    Those people are gone from the labor pool. They were a momentary artifact of class mobility that was present up to the early 90s but is no longer a thing
  - registeredcorn 3y ago
    I totally feel that! :) One of the things that I found great about working with computers was that it got me away from being a few inches away from a fryer for 8-16 hours a day. Not having to deal with screaming parents, sobbing children, and people literally (yes, literally) throwing hot food at me that "had too much (whatever) on it". Instead, getting to sit in a calm quiet environment for literally something like 5x the pay, for barely 3 to 4 hours of work, was a massive improvement. Over time, I managed to get into a role that has even less customer interaction, for higher pay, and less stress. It's also in something I actually care about, too! It's really great how freeing things can be, once you start to get specialized into specific areas. Anyway, I was kind of tripped out on how the commenter had phrased their initial comment, "people quitting left and right". I had taken to mean something like "...because of a recent change", and was wondering what it was. The commenter made a follow up and it sounds closer to something like, "People would join and work for TSMC for a short time, then get disgusted and quit." I had assumed that there was a long-term American work force that had been floating around, but left because of something that wasn't covered in the article, and I wanted to know what that was. It sounds like that's not really what they meant.
    - 3y ago
mcphage 3y ago
> American engineers quit left and right due to working conditions and pay Which TSMC location has American engineers working at it?
- itake 3y ago
  TSMC hires US college grads and flies them to Tainan for training for a couple years. Then they go back to Arizona to setup the factory.

intrasight 3y ago

As any economist would tell you, "Labor Shortage" is a myth in any industry.

thfuran 3y ago
Not in new or rapidly expanding fields that require expertise.

maldev 3y ago

Hardware (And even embedded programming) pays absolute ass since it's all outsourced to Asia. Zero reason not to do literally any other job which will use the same skills, and pay double. Bringing it to America, means upping the salaries to match what Americans expect, and alot of jobs just lowball still.