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Edw's comment aside, I can understand being bored with programming. After you learn your way around a dozen or so different platforms, if you're not getting bor

Edw's comment aside, I can understand being bored with programming. After you learn your way around a dozen or so different platforms, if you're not getting bored you might want to check to see if you don't have a bit of Asperger's. But he nails it when he points out that all of this programming talk is bullshit. It's just stuff to chat mindlessly about while you're not helping people. Programming is making computers help people. Never forget that. The more you focus on the computers part, the unhappier you are going to be. I will extend my analogy. If after the 50th article you read on HN about some upcoming technology you haven't figured out that something is wrong with your focus you should seek help. If you want theory, computer science is a great field to study. For the vast majority of us, it is not an end to itself. It's all very easy to get good at critiquing Judy arrays and suck at making something people want. You can carry on like this for the rest of your life. Don't do that. You provide a bridge to the future for millions of people. Please, the rest of us need your help.

michaelochurch 15y ago
When I was 21, I thought the fun part was learning new technologies and the hard, frustrating, somewhat boring part was writing the code. (I also only knew C++ and Java, so I thought the accidental complexity of these languages was an intrinsic fixture of programming.) Learning Python, then Ocaml, then Lisp, was a lot of fun. (The REPL makes a huge difference in the experience of programming. It makes the code real rather than some hazy gobbledegook.) It was even better to start using these languages for real-world problems. I'm 28 now and I find the writing of code to be the fun part, because I'm now good at it and know better technologies than C++ and Java. I get into "the zone" and before I know it, 4 hours have passed. Unfortunately, that's not the reality of industrial software engineering where, if you're lucky, 25% of your time might be spent writing code. Learning new platforms (often with so many of them that I can only learn enough to glue them together) is often boring. It's fun to learn new technologies when there's something genuinely new in them, but I'm sick of having to learn new and often less useful ways of doing old things.
- DanielBMarkham 15y ago
  I love programming and find it very relaxing. I would probably also like re-arranging chairs at a charity function. Or solving mathematical puzzles in books. I also love instrument flying, which is like real-time fluid dynamics where you die if you screw it up. But I've come to understand that these are just properties of the types of people who grok computers -- detail-oriented, able to spend many hours in the zone, and in love with complexity. At some point, the "benefits" from this personality type become drawbacks. There are a lot of guys spending thousands of hours on code in their spare time that might help 3 people -- who are also programmers. I'm not saying this is a bad choice. It just seems to me like we programmers as a whole like trivial things and can spend most of our time on them as long as they tickle our analytic bone. Continuing my flying example, there have been cases of people flying airplanes into the sides of mountains in perfectly good weather while they were fiddling around with the flight computer. Many of us are doing the same thing -- only in very slow motion. By the way, the fun part is learning the technology. The hard part is working with people to make something they want -- which is why it's about a million times more important.
  - wladimir 15y ago
    By the way, the fun part is learning the technology. The hard part is working with people -- which is why it's about a million times more important. That's very interesting, and indeed seems to mark a certain personality type. Most people would see that exactly the other way around, that working with people is fun and easy, but the technical stuff is hard and extremely frustrating. It depends completely on your skill and what you're used to. Almost all people tend to think their own area of expertise is easier compared to others and don't understand why other people don't get it like they do (which has a simple answer: years of experience). There are a lot of guys spending thousands of hours on code in their spare time that might help 3 people -- who are also programmers Nah, helping 3 people in your spare time is more than helping no one. You're right, if your goal is to help as many people as possible, programming isn't the right time sink. Better to sign up for some volunteer job. On the other hand, you could also be reading a book, playing a game or watching TV and helping exactly no one :) Edit: and don't forget many non-programmers also spend their spare time on very trivial stuff. The problem is not exactly limited to technical people...
ismarc 15y ago
I think a large part of it comes down to why different people like programming. I learned to program when trying to figure out why computers work. I learned to work on cars when trying to figure out how they work. I like building things and I like fixing broken things. Programming happens to be chock full of both, pays well, allows more time to think and analyze the problem and getting paid for it doesn't ruin the enjoyment (for me). I could make more doing something else and I could make more working at companies where I'm not building things, but they aren't what I love doing. Life is too short do not do something you love, it's just a matter of finding something you love to do that you can get paid for.
kenrikm 15y ago
This parallels much of the photography community, there are people who know every technical aspect and could talk for days about what f-stop/shutter speed to use in certain circumstances etc.. And then there are people who go out and take beautiful photos of beautiful things. The point is Photography is not about equipment "I can't take that photo without this lens" it's about photos you can take. Programming is not about Languages and Code structure it's about making something useful using the knowledge you have (Twitter could have been made with PHP or Python or any number of other languages, it still would have been "Twitter") Heck look at PG and Viaweb, none of the users cared that it was made with Clisp just that it did what they needed it to do.
donaq 15y ago
The more you focus on the computers part, the unhappier you are going to be. Not necessarily true. :)

michaelochurch 15y ago

When I was 21, I thought the fun part was learning new technologies and the hard, frustrating, somewhat boring part was writing the code. (I also only knew C++ and Java, so I thought the accidental complexity of these languages was an intrinsic fixture of programming.) Learning Python, then Ocaml, then Lisp, was a lot of fun. (The REPL makes a huge difference in the experience of programming. It makes the code real rather than some hazy gobbledegook.) It was even better to start using these languages for real-world problems. I'm 28 now and I find the writing of code to be the fun part, because I'm now good at it and know better technologies than C++ and Java. I get into "the zone" and before I know it, 4 hours have passed. Unfortunately, that's not the reality of industrial software engineering where, if you're lucky, 25% of your time might be spent writing code. Learning new platforms (often with so many of them that I can only learn enough to glue them together) is often boring. It's fun to learn new technologies when there's something genuinely new in them, but I'm sick of having to learn new and often less useful ways of doing old things.

DanielBMarkham 15y ago
I love programming and find it very relaxing. I would probably also like re-arranging chairs at a charity function. Or solving mathematical puzzles in books. I also love instrument flying, which is like real-time fluid dynamics where you die if you screw it up. But I've come to understand that these are just properties of the types of people who grok computers -- detail-oriented, able to spend many hours in the zone, and in love with complexity. At some point, the "benefits" from this personality type become drawbacks. There are a lot of guys spending thousands of hours on code in their spare time that might help 3 people -- who are also programmers. I'm not saying this is a bad choice. It just seems to me like we programmers as a whole like trivial things and can spend most of our time on them as long as they tickle our analytic bone. Continuing my flying example, there have been cases of people flying airplanes into the sides of mountains in perfectly good weather while they were fiddling around with the flight computer. Many of us are doing the same thing -- only in very slow motion. By the way, the fun part is learning the technology. The hard part is working with people to make something they want -- which is why it's about a million times more important.
- wladimir 15y ago
  By the way, the fun part is learning the technology. The hard part is working with people -- which is why it's about a million times more important. That's very interesting, and indeed seems to mark a certain personality type. Most people would see that exactly the other way around, that working with people is fun and easy, but the technical stuff is hard and extremely frustrating. It depends completely on your skill and what you're used to. Almost all people tend to think their own area of expertise is easier compared to others and don't understand why other people don't get it like they do (which has a simple answer: years of experience). There are a lot of guys spending thousands of hours on code in their spare time that might help 3 people -- who are also programmers Nah, helping 3 people in your spare time is more than helping no one. You're right, if your goal is to help as many people as possible, programming isn't the right time sink. Better to sign up for some volunteer job. On the other hand, you could also be reading a book, playing a game or watching TV and helping exactly no one :) Edit: and don't forget many non-programmers also spend their spare time on very trivial stuff. The problem is not exactly limited to technical people...

ismarc 15y ago

I think a large part of it comes down to why different people like programming. I learned to program when trying to figure out why computers work. I learned to work on cars when trying to figure out how they work. I like building things and I like fixing broken things. Programming happens to be chock full of both, pays well, allows more time to think and analyze the problem and getting paid for it doesn't ruin the enjoyment (for me). I could make more doing something else and I could make more working at companies where I'm not building things, but they aren't what I love doing. Life is too short do not do something you love, it's just a matter of finding something you love to do that you can get paid for.

kenrikm 15y ago

This parallels much of the photography community, there are people who know every technical aspect and could talk for days about what f-stop/shutter speed to use in certain circumstances etc.. And then there are people who go out and take beautiful photos of beautiful things. The point is Photography is not about equipment "I can't take that photo without this lens" it's about photos you can take. Programming is not about Languages and Code structure it's about making something useful using the knowledge you have (Twitter could have been made with PHP or Python or any number of other languages, it still would have been "Twitter") Heck look at PG and Viaweb, none of the users cared that it was made with Clisp just that it did what they needed it to do.

donaq 15y ago

The more you focus on the computers part, the unhappier you are going to be. Not necessarily true. :)