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It can't work if you're willing to engage with bad faith players, and are unwilling to call them out for their bullshit. China has been depending on industrial

by yarg 3y ago

It can't work if you're willing to engage with bad faith players, and are unwilling to call them out for their bullshit. China has been depending on industrial espionage in order to keep up for decades now. Punish them for their malfeasance. The way that the west works is far from ideal, but limited term intellectual property protection provides a significant portion of the motivation for the creation of novel products. Without those protections, and the products that depend on them, there won't even be designs for China to steal. Of course, there is a very valid argument that we don't actually need a lot of that shit, regardless of who's making it.

thomastjeffery 3y ago
> call them out Oh, that's been done plenty. They don't care. Now what...escalate? That's been done, too. Hell, that was probably Trump's biggest campaign promise. Obviously it didn't work. So how far should we keep escalating? Do we declare war over intellectual property? Fuck that. It's time to wake up. We are the ones being called out on our bullshit. China called our bluff, and we are left holding the cards. There is no sense in waiting around: we should fold ASAP.
- gmd63 3y ago
  There's something just morally wrong about wanting to exist in an endgame society that decides its best to give zero credit to creators of ideas. I refuse that and actually would go to war over it. Because without that, you just reward war-like tactics in business, thievery, deception, etc, until nobody wants to create ideas anymore, and thinkers are selected out of the gene pool until we're a hive of drones sucking the toes of our queen bee influencers.
  - goodpoint 3y ago
    > morally wrong about wanting to exist in an endgame society that decides its best to give zero credit to creators of ideas Where can I see the names of the people who designed my phone? Is it printed on the box? Or those who wrote a service I use like GitHub? Inventors have been dispossessed of their authorship for the last hundred years. > thinkers are selected out of the gene pool Right now having contributed to openbsd makes a guy the sexiest dude in every party, right?
    - gmd63 3y ago
      OpenBSD is exactly my point. It's deeply knowledgeable people giving their hard work away for free. There is nothing sexy about that. Honorable, idealistic, yeah. I deeply value the people that work on OpenBSD. I wish they had fewer struggles in life. They should start by valuing their time and effort more, like lawyers, who charge 10s of thousands of dollars to read PDFs.
  - pravus 3y ago
    > There's something just morally wrong about wanting to exist in an endgame society that decides its best to give zero credit to creators of ideas. > I refuse that and actually would go to war over it. It is absolutely morally debased and corrupt to advocate violence to resolve intellectual pursuits. I want to exist in a society that shares ideas since they are not scarce and we can argue over the actually scarce things we care about.
    - gmd63 3y ago
      It's morally debased and corrupt to treat deep thinkers like plants that can be harvested, their entire lives and experiences consumed to enjoy the fruits of their intellectual labor. It's just personal preference, like all politics. We create the world we want to live in. Yes, I once idealized your society, but after years in the corporate world I learned there will always be plenty of snakes out there. I'd prefer not structuring society in a way that rewards them even more.
inconceivable 3y ago
you are literally powerless to make them do anything. this is known as impotent range.
- yarg 3y ago
  There really has been an influx of low quality comments in the last ~18 months (or perhaps that's just a semi-noob illusion). Either way, your comment really added nothing at all to the discussion - no counter points, just a poorly considered insult. So here's the thing - China is a self deluding autocracy that has repeatedly purged competency from its institutions and government (the extent to which this is true far exceeds that of any western nation), I don't need to exert any control in order for that titanic economic system to fail - I just don't. The entire system is built on lies told to superiors - exaggerated, repackaged and passed on to the next level, all the way up to Xi. Everything they build depends on stolen technology, but they lack the tacit domain knowledge required to correctly implement what they steal; Cha bu duo simply is not good enough. Not only can they never compete on merits, they can't even reach a baseline of competency. That system will fail all by itself, and the more nationalistic they become (and that's a feedback loop) the faster that western support will erode, and the faster the collapse. The ground falling away like a Ponzi. What need have I for... range?
  - inconceivable 3y ago
    yeah, the collapse is coming, any day now. just like the US federal reserve, the US federal debt, the US stock market... it's all going to collapse any day now. give me a break. both the US and china doomsayers are perennially WRONG. they're all fueled by the same stupid handful of youtube channels that spout the same shit over and over and over again.

by yarg 3y ago

thomastjeffery 3y ago

> call them out Oh, that's been done plenty. They don't care. Now what...escalate? That's been done, too. Hell, that was probably Trump's biggest campaign promise. Obviously it didn't work. So how far should we keep escalating? Do we declare war over intellectual property? Fuck that. It's time to wake up. We are the ones being called out on our bullshit. China called our bluff, and we are left holding the cards. There is no sense in waiting around: we should fold ASAP.

gmd63 3y ago
There's something just morally wrong about wanting to exist in an endgame society that decides its best to give zero credit to creators of ideas. I refuse that and actually would go to war over it. Because without that, you just reward war-like tactics in business, thievery, deception, etc, until nobody wants to create ideas anymore, and thinkers are selected out of the gene pool until we're a hive of drones sucking the toes of our queen bee influencers.
- goodpoint 3y ago
  > morally wrong about wanting to exist in an endgame society that decides its best to give zero credit to creators of ideas Where can I see the names of the people who designed my phone? Is it printed on the box? Or those who wrote a service I use like GitHub? Inventors have been dispossessed of their authorship for the last hundred years. > thinkers are selected out of the gene pool Right now having contributed to openbsd makes a guy the sexiest dude in every party, right?
  - gmd63 3y ago
    OpenBSD is exactly my point. It's deeply knowledgeable people giving their hard work away for free. There is nothing sexy about that. Honorable, idealistic, yeah. I deeply value the people that work on OpenBSD. I wish they had fewer struggles in life. They should start by valuing their time and effort more, like lawyers, who charge 10s of thousands of dollars to read PDFs.
- pravus 3y ago
  > There's something just morally wrong about wanting to exist in an endgame society that decides its best to give zero credit to creators of ideas. > I refuse that and actually would go to war over it. It is absolutely morally debased and corrupt to advocate violence to resolve intellectual pursuits. I want to exist in a society that shares ideas since they are not scarce and we can argue over the actually scarce things we care about.
  - gmd63 3y ago
    It's morally debased and corrupt to treat deep thinkers like plants that can be harvested, their entire lives and experiences consumed to enjoy the fruits of their intellectual labor. It's just personal preference, like all politics. We create the world we want to live in. Yes, I once idealized your society, but after years in the corporate world I learned there will always be plenty of snakes out there. I'd prefer not structuring society in a way that rewards them even more.

inconceivable 3y ago

you are literally powerless to make them do anything. this is known as impotent range.

yarg 3y ago
There really has been an influx of low quality comments in the last ~18 months (or perhaps that's just a semi-noob illusion). Either way, your comment really added nothing at all to the discussion - no counter points, just a poorly considered insult. So here's the thing - China is a self deluding autocracy that has repeatedly purged competency from its institutions and government (the extent to which this is true far exceeds that of any western nation), I don't need to exert any control in order for that titanic economic system to fail - I just don't. The entire system is built on lies told to superiors - exaggerated, repackaged and passed on to the next level, all the way up to Xi. Everything they build depends on stolen technology, but they lack the tacit domain knowledge required to correctly implement what they steal; Cha bu duo simply is not good enough. Not only can they never compete on merits, they can't even reach a baseline of competency. That system will fail all by itself, and the more nationalistic they become (and that's a feedback loop) the faster that western support will erode, and the faster the collapse. The ground falling away like a Ponzi. What need have I for... range?
- inconceivable 3y ago
  yeah, the collapse is coming, any day now. just like the US federal reserve, the US federal debt, the US stock market... it's all going to collapse any day now. give me a break. both the US and china doomsayers are perennially WRONG. they're all fueled by the same stupid handful of youtube channels that spout the same shit over and over and over again.